Great FAQ posted on Linkwitzlab
linkwitzlab.com/LX521/FAQ.htm
From the tone of the FAQ perhaps SL is montoring the DIY boards, although not contribute/post.
It seems he suggest that we need to stop complaining about the looks and start building/listening
Actually I don't think there is a lot of complaining here, most of us like newer designs to speculate on. It's one of the more entertaining facets of this forum.
I thought it was particularly interesting that it's his "best design" and that he expects "no change to the design".
-that might spark a bit of controversy. Perhaps more to very recent Orion builders and purchasers than anyone else. While everyone needs to have creative freedom, if it were me personally - I would in fact "feel sorry for them" (..in that I don't think they were striving for 2nd best, however good that may be, on a not insubstantial investment).
Well, first, the LX521 is dipole, not omni.
But more generally that raises the age old question of what you mix for . . . some "idealized" speaker (common monitors
) in the (typically rather dead) studio, or the speakers your listener is likely to have (in their car?) or the speaker most likely to realize the "artistic intent" in some (relatively) "good" listening room or ? ? ?Dipoles and omnis have the clear advantage of uniform polar patterns (although it's still easier to claim than to actually acomplish). Dipoles in particular are also free from some of the inherent problems of "speakers in boxes", which makes it easier to accomplish "clarity" and "transparency", particularly in the critical midrange. I don't see any particular reason why monitoring/mixing shouldn't be done in a room acoustically similar to the typical listening room using speakers which (while admittedly not common) get the best that can be got out of such a room. Mixing using the typical small-box studio monitor in a "dead" room while expecting the result to translate well into the real world has produed what we've got . . . a lot of not-very-good recordings and a few (accidentally) exceptional ones (the "accident" often being low budget necessitating minimalist miking and post-processing).
I'm not sure that there is any one "right answer", but I suspect that using the best monitors possible in an environment at least somewhat similar to that of the quality-conscious end user probably serves everyone best. Mixes done that way will still sound good in cars and through earbuds (as good as they would otherwise, anyway), but they also have the potential of sounding excellent for the users who are willing to make reasonable effort to get that sound in their home (presumably that's us
).Is there a real omni speaker at all? The LX521 is probably closer to being omni than any other commercial speaker.
But more generally that raises the age old question of what you mix for . . . some "idealized" speaker (common monitors
The latter is actually what mixing/mastering engineer believe they are doing. Anyway, I doubt that the majority would agree a dipole like the LX521 is "the speaker most likely to realize the "artistic intent"".
You've omitted lots of "ifs".
The "typical listening room" doesn't exist and most recordings aren't made for audiophiles but for the rest which is probably 99% of all consumers (with headphones on). Only proper production standards would help everyone.
I'm not sure that there is any one "right answer", but I suspect that using the best monitors possible in an environment at least somewhat similar to that of the quality-conscious end user probably serves everyone best. Mixes done that way will still sound good in cars and through earbuds (as good as they would otherwise, anyway), but they also have the potential of sounding excellent for the users who are willing to make reasonable effort to get that sound in their home (presumably that's us
Again, what makes you think a speaker radiating the same way to the front and to the back is "best"? There are too many variables at play and there's still a lot of psychoacoustic research to be done. A speaker like the LX521 is just another concept for exploring sound reproduction.
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There surely are some true omnis out there. But I don't think people use them as monitors
MBL: MBL 101 E Radialstrahler Omnidirectional Loudspeaker | The Absolute Sound
Raal Eternity: http://www.raal-requisite.com/pages/eternity.html
There surely are some true omnis out there. But I don't think people use them as monitors
MBL: MBL 101 E Radialstrahler Omnidirectional Loudspeaker | The Absolute Sound
Raal Eternity: http://www.raal-requisite.com/pages/eternity.html
Now compare radiation pattern to the LX521 and "typical" 2- or 3-way speakers. QED.
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Yes, you have . . . as you generally do.
But then, neither of us are writing textbooks, are we . . .
-that might spark a bit of controversy. Perhaps more to very recent Orion builders and purchasers than anyone else. While everyone needs to have creative freedom, if it were me personally - I would in fact "feel sorry for them" (..in that I don't think they were striving for 2nd best, however good that may be, on a not insubstantial investment).
Not an issue...I built Orion 3 years ago intending it to be my last speaker, and it is. You seem to imply that SL should freeze his work so as not to leave his customers behind? Orion meets and exceeds my needs for quality audio and I am fairly certain any improvements that LX521 could bring would be quite marginal. The endless dissatisfaction with the now that is symptomatic of audiophilia nervosa is fine as a hobby for compulsives but I'd rather just enjoy the music! Thank you SL!
I've had nothing to contribute directly to this thread, though I'm following it.
HOWEVER, last night I received an email about DIY NE that I will host tomorrow at my place. We may have a set of Orions here this year that will allow for some comparisons. Maybe that will help provide more than conjecture, at least WRT the Orions.
I may need to press John to allow us to use his multi-channel amps, these will be coming her from Montreal. I hope he brings them. What I have may not be considered adequate, though I use them for my dipoles.
dlr
HOWEVER, last night I received an email about DIY NE that I will host tomorrow at my place. We may have a set of Orions here this year that will allow for some comparisons. Maybe that will help provide more than conjecture, at least WRT the Orions.
I may need to press John to allow us to use his multi-channel amps, these will be coming her from Montreal. I hope he brings them. What I have may not be considered adequate, though I use them for my dipoles.
dlr
What, dirve Orions with my amps? I can hear it now, John modified his amps to sure his speakers sounded better.
I have an idea Dave. Bring your measurement set up up stairs so we can tweak ther miniDSP so both speaker have the same axial response. Then we could get an idea of what extending dipole operations does.
That's why I want to use yours. I won't want my amps to be the excuse!What, dirve Orions with my amps? I can hear it now, John modified his amps to sure his speakers sounded better.
I can probably get that done. I'm going to be pretty busy today, though. I haven't cranked up the measurement system for some time now, we'll just have to be careful with it when my dogs are running around! I keep it out of the way downstairs, as you know.
Do you need SE or will LAUD do? I assume SE, since the delay in the MiniDSP will likely prevent use of LAUD. For SE I have to set up the mic preamp that's not needed with LAUD.
dlr
I am tired of this Linkwitz bashing.. If he doesn't do anything, he is lazy, if he does something, he's late.. Whatever, he's always wrong..!
I think this thread says more about the psychology of some contributors than it should.. like the joy of "killing the father" sort of attitude..
+1.
These guys are standing on his shoulders and don't think twice about criticizing him.
As usual, the proof is in the pudding. And the LX521 was leagues ahead of anything I heard at RMAF.
That's why I want to use yours. I won't want my amps to be the excuse!
I can probably get that done. I'm going to be pretty busy today, though. I haven't cranked up the measurement system for some time now, we'll just have to be careful with it when my dogs are running around! I keep it out of the way downstairs, as you know.
Do you need SE or will LAUD do? I assume SE, since the delay in the MiniDSP will likely prevent use of LAUD. For SE I have to set up the mic preamp that's not needed with LAUD.
dlr
The delay is a miniDSP is pretty short. Laud should work fine.
I think you're on to something. The difference between them is quite modest, especially when compared to the difference between either of them and almost everything else. ORION is more sensitive to the room . . . get that right and, well . . .
What SL.. *should* do. No, that would actually be "chiding" (as he mentioned).
Frankly I have no idea what he should do.. I can however think of a few things he could do to minimize any potential problems (..not that there necessarily will be problems). In fact, I *hope* no one has any problems.
(..I think it's also likely that more than a few of those who recently invested in an Orion, might not want the more "avant-garde" design of the LX521, no matter the improvement.)
Still, I can see the potential for problems.. Ex. customer "A" purchases for $15,000 an Orion 4 because it's supposed to be the "best" in a size they can live with. Aesthetics are of secondary importance to "A", ultimate sound quality is the most important issue. Customer "A" made this purchase 4 months ago. Customer "A" has been saving-up a long time to afford this purchase and it represents a fair amount of their disposable income over several years. Or perhaps customer "B" with the same requirements and financial limitations that is *about* to do the very same, but hasn't carefully read the "faq" section of SL's website on the LX521.
It *can* happen, and sometimes it does happen.
(..I should also note that perhaps SL already has measures in place to limit these sorts of problems.)
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