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Old 6th December 2012, 07:56 PM   #411
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Orion
Ok, so you have heard one dipole. Did you at least have enough time to adapt to it ?
What about omnis beside the Beolab that you did not like ?

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Talking about MBL - is this the best way to place an omni?
Since when do you care for marketing pictures ?

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Low level details get lost.
And what if a narrow dispersion speaker would simply concentrate and bundle these details like a lense and thus over represent them ? Have you thought about that possibility ?
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Old 6th December 2012, 08:34 PM   #412
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Not true at all.
That claim is missing some arguments.

Have you ever done binaural recordings of different configurations? I did. You should too.
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Old 6th December 2012, 08:37 PM   #413
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6.283, if you mistrust my credibility then it's probably better if you simply ignore my postings.
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Old 6th December 2012, 08:37 PM   #414
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Mounting drivers back to back in a box has nothing to do with the Xmax requirements. What matters is the volume velocity (Xmax x Sd), the dipole moment (front to back separation) and the low frequency cut off.
Maybe I wasn't clear. What I'm saying is that if you put a 3 inch driver in a closed box, and actively EQ it to be acoustically flat down to 100 Hz, it will require about 1/3 the Xmax (cone displacement) compared to the same driver set up as open baffle and actively EQ'd to be acoustically flat to 100HZ.

When I suggested I would consider back to back drivers, I should have mentioned that I would put them in separate closed boxes, and actively EQ if necessary. I would no longer have the Xmax issue of open baffle speakers, but I would have the dipole radiation pattern.
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:19 PM   #415
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Maybe I wasn't clear. What I'm saying is that if you put a 3 inch driver in a closed box, and actively ESQ it to be acoustically flat down to 100 Hz, it will require about 1/3 the Xmax (cone displacement) compared to the same driver set up as open baffle and actively EQ'd to be acoustically flat to 100HZ.

When I suggested I would consider back to back drivers, I should have mentioned that I would put them in separate closed boxes, and actively EQ if necessary. I would no longer have the Xmax issue of open baffle speakers, but I would have the dipole radiation pattern.
How big is the baffle on the box going to be to prevent dipole cancellation down to 100 Hz? The only way you would accomplish what you are talking about is to have the baffle big enough so that the front and rear drivers are operating in 2Pi space. A baffle big enough to do that at 100 Hz probably won't fit in a room, and would not yield dipole response.
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Old 6th December 2012, 10:37 PM   #416
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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When I suggested I would consider back to back drivers, I should have mentioned that I would put them in separate closed boxes, and actively EQ if necessary. I would no longer have the Xmax issue of open baffle speakers, but I would have the dipole radiation pattern.
John is correct, this won't increase the efficiency of the system over two drivers in an open baffle. Adding to monopoles out of phase reducves the sound radiation down to that of a dipole and the X-max problem just comes back again.
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Old 7th December 2012, 01:58 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
John is correct, this won't increase the efficiency of the system over two drivers in an open baffle. Adding to monopoles out of phase reducves the sound radiation down to that of a dipole and the X-max problem just comes back again.
Oh sh*t, you guys are right... Sorry. I didn't think it out all the way... We're all aloud to embarrass ourselves once aren't we?
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Old 7th December 2012, 02:31 AM   #418
terry j is offline terry j  Australia
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Oh sh*t, you guys are right... Sorry. I didn't think it out all the way... We're all aloud to embarrass ourselves once aren't we?
twice?
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Old 7th December 2012, 08:45 AM   #419
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
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6.283, if you mistrust my credibility then it's probably better if you simply ignore my postings.
But I might as well tell you about my recent perception (and then we move on):

I have some difficulties to see what your posts are all about. Do you want to re-educate people, tell them that all their builds are a waste of time (although probably most of them are pround and happy whith what has been achieved), show a better way or anything else ?

To me it seems as if you are striving for the perfect way to do it. That's good. But I guess everybody here knows that there is no perfect speaker and way to do it. To me such threads go more into the direction: How good can a dipole or omni be built. So I find it a bit tiring that you are trashing omnis and dipoles all the time.
Also, if all your assertions are based on theory then you are lacking the ability to rate and weigh behaviors of those speakers because you cannot know how theoretical knowledge translates into practical experiences. That's why I was asking what speakers have you heard and maybe even built so far.
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:24 AM   #420
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6.283, Your goal might be to build the best omni/dipole. My goal is best sound reproduction. Speakers are just a means to an end. If it helps, I don't consider the typical boxed speaker a good idea either. You want to talk about "car", I'm talking about "means of transport". You don't need to join that discussion if you don't want to.

And no, I'm not lacking practical experience. The claims I made are based on experience.
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