New Linkwitz "LX521" speakers.. - Page 35 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th November 2012, 07:34 PM   #341
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
It *can* happen,
Never buy a computer, or a car, or a cell phone . . . because there will be a "better" one next year? Is that what you're saying?
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2012, 07:52 PM   #342
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
Never buy a computer, or a car, or a cell phone . . . because there will be a "better" one next year? Is that what you're saying?


Oh I know it happens in most on-going industries. Many actually do account for this (as best they think they can) with various measures.

In the computer, car, and cell phone examples there is a significant expectation by customers and potential customers that a "new and improved" model will come out soon that cannot be "upgraded", or perhaps fully upgraded.

There are some differences..


So obviously no - that's not what I'm saying (..and of course you already knew that).
__________________
perspective is everything
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2012, 08:37 PM   #343
diyAudio Member
 
Lynn Olson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Colorado
So SL changes his mind? This is pretty common in the high-end biz. Preferences and design priorities change over the years.

This is good, not bad. Only beginners think the "perfect" loudspeaker is an attainable goal. As you progress in audio, you discover different sets of tradeoffs, placing different design priorities on loudspeakers (or amplifiers, or DACs, etc.). SL's current loudspeakers are fairly different than the Beethoven's he was doing 20 years ago - but the Beethoven's were very good in their day, as his current projects are now - just in a different way.

The hard part for any well-known audio designer is humility: saying in public, "this is the best I can do - for now", which leaves open the possibility of more to come in the future. Besides, outright design oversights are pretty common in this business - you're sailing along happily for several years, pleased with what you've done, and then suddenly discover you overlooked something pretty important. Happens to all of us, no matter how high-profile the designer may be.

In the corporate world, this is hidden behind the scrim of marketing and promoting the image of the "Einstein" who designs Acme Loudspeakers International. Meet the designer in person, though, and you find all kinds of little second-thoughts that can't be said in public, or at least in earshot of the corporate minders.

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 30th November 2012 at 08:46 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2012, 09:35 PM   #344
diyAudio Member
 
john k...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Olson View Post
So SL changes his mind? This is pretty common in the high-end biz. Preferences and design priorities change over the years.

This is good, not bad. Only beginners think the "perfect" loudspeaker is an attainable goal. As you progress in audio, you discover different sets of tradeoffs, placing different design priorities on loudspeakers (or amplifiers, or DACs, etc.). SL's current loudspeakers are fairly different than the Beethoven's he was doing 20 years ago - but the Beethoven's were very good in their day, as his current projects are now - just in a different way.

The hard part for any well-known audio designer is humility: saying in public, "this is the best I can do - for now", which leaves open the possibility of more to come in the future. Besides, outright design oversights are pretty common in this business - you're sailing along happily for several years, pleased with what you've done, and then suddenly discover you overlooked something pretty important. Happens to all of us, no matter how high-profile the designer may be.
Perhaps this is the difference between working in audio and working as a research scientist as I did for many years. We don't suffer such problems with humility. We generally accept that what we do today will be short lived as the research community is always looking for the next best thing. Everyone contributes to the pool of knowledge and the next best thing, though perhaps developed by a single individual, is founded on that knowledge pool. It's called progress, or at least that is what it used to be called.
__________________
John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2012, 08:01 AM   #345
diyAudio Member
 
Lynn Olson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Colorado
It doesn't help that most loudspeaker designers are working by themselves, and are working in a corporate marketing environment that promotes a type of star system. Thus, Acme Speakers International has XYZ famous-name designer, who is on a first-name basis with ABC magazine reviewer. Not a healthy situation - and no wonder the industry doesn't move forward, since it is almost entirely marketing-driven.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2012, 08:23 AM   #346
lolo is offline lolo  France
diyAudio Member
 
lolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: somewhere by the border..
I am actually getting used to the look, I think it would look very good on a marble baffle, but we have to find a way to hide the back or make it look more neat. It's a hell of a machine, again!
For a buyer not interested in DIY, I cant see any reason not to go for the last Orion version, frankly.. it's still better than a lot of things out there costing more.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 11:34 PM   #347
Sjef is offline Sjef  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Amsterdam
Haven't read up all the pages of this thread, just found it so excuse if it has been said before but I really think that a big part of the better sound he is getting from his new design has to do with stress releave from the 1" dome tweeters. For years I have seen the audio industry move towards the use of 1" dome tweeters crossed over at 1.5 kHz or even lower. (and every diy copying it because they still think the audio industry is right, right ?) IMHO this is a recipe for disaster. I realy hate the sound of 1" domes crossed this low, nomatter how steep the filter is, nomatter how well it integrates on paper Just a matter of moving area, nomatter if it can move 5mm forward and backward. It just always sounds stressed. A big waveguide can help out here, but still. I have heard the Orion on two occasions and both times I thought it was a pretty well balanced loudspeaker but that 1.5kHz 1" dome sound was really the deal breaker for me. Maybe it's just me but I just can't listen to it for longer than a couple of hours while I like to listen 25 hours a day if possible.

I have tried a similar setup like the LX521 about 5 years years ago (freakingly similar in fact) I used a 8" lower mid up to 1kHz and a 5" upper mid to 8 kHz on a small baffle. sounds way better than a 1" dome in this range, apart from any polar response. I'm shouting it for years now, just do not use any 1" dome below 3kHz, trying to get 1kHz out of them is utterly stupid.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2012, 12:55 AM   #348
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: philadelphia
Default Dipole line array ??

As narrow baffles are the best to maintain the dipole characteristics of CD till the top end of the spectrum, why not use a line array of six to eight, 3" FR drivers with good xmax like the inexpensive Aurasound NS3 instead of a 6" and a 3-4" driver with a crossover.
The NS3 has enough xmax to equalise the low end flat down to 100Hz, below which any sized dipole woofers can take over. A 4" wide baffle of an array of NS3 can maintain CD as high as 4-6KHz above which opposite facing tweeters can be employed. This option even with eight NS3 drivers per side, would certainly be a lot cheaper than a actively crossed equalised and amplified combination of a 6" and a 4" driver.

The only issue might be comb filtering in the vertical axis

Last edited by soundaatma; 6th December 2012 at 01:06 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2012, 01:22 AM   #349
diyAudio Member
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
Well, first, the LX521 is dipole, not omni.

But more generally that raises the age old question of what you mix for . . . some "idealized" speaker (common monitors ) in the (typically rather dead) studio, or the speakers your listener is likely to have (in their car?) or the speaker most likely to realize the "artistic intent" in some (relatively) "good" listening room or ? ? ?

I don't see any particular reason why monitoring/mixing shouldn't be done in a room acoustically similar to the typical listening room using speakers which (while admittedly not common) get the best that can be got out of such a room. Mixing using the typical small-box studio monitor in a "dead" room while expecting the result to translate well into the real world has produed what we've got . . . a lot of not-very-good recordings and a few (accidentally) exceptional ones (the "accident" often being low budget necessitating minimalist miking and post-processing).

I'm not sure that there is any one "right answer", but ...).
If you've ever used a calibrated mic and pink noise or sine wave sweeps to measure the response of a flat speaker at the listening position in a typical listening room, you should have noticed the cancellations due to floor bounce, ceiling bounce and every other reflection in the room. In the many rooms I've measured, I've found 6-12dB notches to be typical. If you were to adjust EQ in one such room, and then play it back in a different, but also somewhat typical listening room, it could get very ugly, because the 2nd room will have cancellations at different frequencies due to it's dimensions and possibly shape being somewhat different. You then have the potential of twice that amount of error. The best choice is great headphones and/or very flat speakers in a totally dead room (anechoic chamber). Anything else is a crap shoot. Having said that, I might also listen to a final mix in a car, and in mono mode.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2012, 01:34 AM   #350
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundaatma View Post
why not use a line array of six to eight, 3" FR
. . .
The NS3 has enough xmax to equalise the low end flat down to 100Hz,
. . .
The only issue might be comb filtering in the vertical axis
A dipole line array is indeed a possibility, however it would take more like 2 dozen per side ($300 in drivers), the necessary dipole boost still limits bass output, and there are other issues (like cost of and integrating with a tweeter line) as well. Certainly worth a try, and people have done dipole line arrays with cheaper "buyout" drivers with some success. Go for it, and let us know how it works out . . .
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Reverse" Linkwitz Transform Relaxin Analog Line Level 9 23rd August 2012 02:19 PM
What makes an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"? JohnS Solid State 51 13th December 2009 06:42 PM
70cm tall, 3 way, diy speakers based on 10"/4"/1" japanese ken brown drivers. facundonu Multi-Way 34 9th March 2009 04:59 AM
Linkwitz "Transform" Circuit Help Shike Solid State 10 5th April 2008 11:44 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:10 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2