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Old 16th November 2012, 11:40 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post

I really don't agree with the passive approach. The speaker above still requires considerable EQ in the bass region. It could be done passively but I feel that is just a waste of amp head room. Hybrid or all active makes more sense to me.
That's a consequence of the woofer choice. With low-Q, high excursion woofers like SLS you're "stuck" with active boost (not that it is a bad thing) and doing it passively is a waste as you say.

Passive is only practical if one _doesn't_ have to do huge amount of EQ. Things are different with large diameter (15"+), higher sensitivity, middle-to-high-Q woofers, those do not require as much EQ.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:13 PM   #112
lolo is offline lolo  France
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John,

Would you mind sharing this design with us? Looks like a fun speaker!
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:15 PM   #113
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Default High Q 15" woofers

High Q, 15 inch woofers like the very inexpensive Eminence alpha 15, Goldwood 15" and in the price range of SEAS L26ROY the Acoustic Elegance dipole 15 offer flat bass as low or lower than 40Hz in passive OB designs without equalisation active or passive.

John, if you have bought into Geddes's idea of no difference b/w dipole and monopole bass, do you plan to do away with your cardioid woofer designs for the Nao speakers !
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Old 16th November 2012, 04:45 PM   #114
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
I've done the big baffle OB system as well. 4 SLS woofers, SS 21W8554 mid, SB acoustic 29RDC tweeter. They are quite impressive, BIG image, totally different sounding that narrow baffle, "point source" dipole like SL's or my other speakers. Derived from my love of the Dayton Wright XG10 ELS, which I regret having ever sold.

Click the image to open in full size.

I really don't agree with the passive approach. The speaker above still requires considerable EQ in the bass region. It could be done passively but I feel that is just a waste of amp head room. Hybrid or all active makes more sense to me.
Now that is a relatively "clean" aesthetic.. (..I'm a little less partial to the old-school fabric and wood choice however. Still, it does have some nostalgia going for it - reminds me of my grandfather's old large Bozaks..)

What's the width and height?
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Old 16th November 2012, 08:28 PM   #115
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It's 33" wide and about 45" tall on the stands. 2 SLS 12" + 2 SLS 10" + SS21W8554 mid + SB Acoustics SB29RDC tweeter. It used to all passive x-o with active eq but now it's all active digital.
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Old 16th November 2012, 08:39 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by soundaatma View Post
High Q, 15 inch woofers like the very inexpensive Eminence alpha 15, Goldwood 15" and in the price range of SEAS L26ROY the Acoustic Elegance dipole 15 offer flat bass as low or lower than 40Hz in passive OB designs without equalisation active or passive.

John, if you have bought into Geddes's idea of no difference b/w dipole and monopole bass, do you plan to do away with your cardioid woofer designs for the Nao speakers !
Well, I am going to a dipole woofer on the revised Note II Rs, but no, I am not planing on changing the designs at this point. After all, they still represent multiple sources with different position and phase. The point being that dipoles and cardioid are multiple sources and that is a good thing. If you have followed the history of the NaO II you well recall that it had cardioid woofers which could be converted to monopoles (for increased max SPL capability). But it always sounded better in cardioid mode. The arguments for that were always based on how cardioids couple to the room. while that isn't wrong, when you look at the cardioid (or dipole) as multiple sources the reasons become clearer.
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Old 16th November 2012, 10:33 PM   #117
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Posted today on SL's website

"The shape of the midrange/tweeter baffle is the result of acoustic requirements, as is the woofer baffle. They are angular and not hidden behind grill cloth. The acoustic impedance of grill cloth rarely matches the acoustic field impedance near the radiator, causing frequency dependent reflection and transmission loss, which can also be angle dependent. The LX521 is meant to be used without grill cloth with the exception of a light fabric table runner over the woofer baffle to partially cover its front and rear openings."

I don't think grill cloth will impede performance that much.
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Old 16th November 2012, 10:37 PM   #118
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
It's 33" wide and about 45" tall on the stands. 2 SLS 12" + 2 SLS 10" + SS21W8554 mid + SB Acoustics SB29RDC tweeter. It used to all passive x-o with active eq but now it's all active digital.


Reminds me of the "late" pontiac adds with the surfer proclaiming:

"Oi loa la 'ula"


-wider is better.
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Old 16th November 2012, 10:40 PM   #119
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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I don't think grill cloth will impede performance that much.
I think it depends on the fabric, the particular driver, and how close that fabric is to the particular driver.

Of course the frame for the fabric would need to sufficiently suppress reflections..
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Old 16th November 2012, 10:52 PM   #120
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Why is this a hot topic now?
Because SL is doing it?
Hasn't this been done for a long time now?
In fact I remember him protesting the idea of dipole action to such a high freq.
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