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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 9th November 2012, 09:43 AM   #11
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I looked at Dr. Geddes papers and will probably use his approach with multiple subs. I didn't see and mention of horn subs however. I'll do more reading here and on other sites.

I think I'll go with some of the recommended speakers. Maybe A5's for mains and DD6600 for surrounds. That may kill budget though ;-)
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Old 12th November 2012, 04:57 AM   #12
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When you go shopping for JBL DD66000 rear surround speakers remember that they come in several different wood veneers :-)

The EconoWave DIY speaker program using a 10" or 12" midbass plus a plastic $30 SEOS12 has received many positive reviews. Several HTs have been built around EconoWaves plus multiple woofers around the room. A 3-way corner speaker leveraging the EconoWave work with a large woofer, plus an EconoWave center channel under your 80" Sharp LED TV, plus a couple extra Geddes style swarm sealed woofers around the room should take your mind off the snow.

Reading EconoWave reviews could help you select between a 10"-12" midrange vs. a LARGE horn midrange.
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Old 13th November 2012, 09:58 AM   #13
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LineSource, you are a very good salesman. I looked more at the SEOS and like the controlled dispersion. Might you have a link to the three way design you posted above (or similar) to get me started?
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Old 16th November 2012, 06:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksteady40 View Post
LineSource, you are a very good salesman.
Rock,

I'm not doing this to sell you something.
I'm doing this for THE KIDS!

I want to help everyone get a wide sound stage so kids at the end of the couch will hear the illusion of stereophonic sound.

I want to help everyone get deep even bass so kids will understand the horrors of war by experiencing the cannon blasts in the 1812 Overture and Saving Private Ryan BluRay.

I want to help everyone educate kids about the dynamics of real music after years of MP3 bland.

I want to bring families together for Movie Night that teach nutrition with Organic fruit and vegetable snacks.

I want our kids to build self-esteem by knowing.. "My Daddy's speakers are bigger than yours!"


You can search for MiniDSP EconoWaves as a good starting education and price point selection. You can download a couple free and a couple low priced room speaker placement software packages to aid your design.


Corner 3-ways: 1" CD +10" midbass +15"/18" woofer. all sealed with MiniDSP equalization. A 10" allows 1100-1200Hz xover to the SEOS12
Center EconoWave: 1" CD + 10" midbass, ported
Two Sealed 15"/18" Geddes Swarm woofers


Some RichMan PoorMan:
SEOS12 $30
1" compression driver: $60=DNA360 $140=Radian475PB
10" midbass: $60=Faital 10FE200; $230=Lambda TD10M
woofer: $104=Pyle 18125 $320=Lambda TD15S
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Old 17th November 2012, 09:20 AM   #15
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Why not use a SEOS-18 with B&C DE250 and a AE TD15M? Excellent match when it comes to CD.

I have no possibility for a corner solution, so I have combined SEOS-18 and AE LO15 woofers in cardioid enclosure.
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Old 17th November 2012, 12:03 PM   #16
coresta is offline coresta  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Rock,


I want our kids to build self-esteem by knowing.. "My Daddy's speakers are bigger than yours!"
Arf, my kids say it and many times ask me to run the Vott A5 for their friends ... really ! They even come back from a party saying that sound was horrible
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Old 18th November 2012, 04:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroenkv View Post
Why not use a SEOS-18 with B&C DE250 and a AE TD15M? Excellent match when it comes to CD.

I have no possibility for a corner solution, so I have combined SEOS-18 and AE LO15 woofers in cardioid enclosure.
To match the 90 degree horizontal polar response of the SEOS18 requires the TD15M to have a steep slope Xover at 650-700Hz. Some experts believe the DE250 compression driver can meet this requirement for low volume home use, some experts would recommend a 1.4" compression driver plus a super tweeter crossed at 10Khz.

For single listener applications, a 60H x 40V constant directivety horn can integrate the polar response with the TD15M at ~1000Hz. You may want to model this option for your listening room. The Daniel Hertz speaker from Mark Levinson mates a 12" midbass to a 60x40 CD horn, so it must be the sexy thing to do.

If you have been following the Beyond the Ariel thread Gary Dahl (g3dahl) just completed a well respected design that uses the TD15M as a midbass with a 700Hz Xover to an AH425 horn with the 1,4" Radian 745NEOPD. Gary included an 18" TD18H+ woofer plus a ribbon tweeter. I have owned Lambda TD15M and agree they are great midbass when properly integrated into a system.

Corner speakers gain 5-6db low frequency SPL boost when compared to in-room speaker placement. This allows good cone drivers to have dynamics similar to large horns. RockSteady will need to decide at what frequency he wants to start limiting vertical polar patterns... LARGE horn vs. cone midbass.
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Old 18th November 2012, 08:25 AM   #18
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My crossover is at 700hz (-48db with MiniDSP). The integration between the woofer and SEOS-18 is very easy in that way.

I have seen some comments on using the B&C DE250 that low, but so far not seen any argument against it. Distortion measurements show now problem and in a home environment there is no SPL problem.

Even when I play very loud no distortion what so ever is noticeable. They can go allot louder than I am able to withstand. I think if you would measure nobody is putting more that 1W in SEOS-18 and still has ears that function properly.

Next to that a 1" driver in general performs better at high frequencies. It also has less beaming.
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Last edited by Jeroenkv; 18th November 2012 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 18th November 2012, 02:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroenkv View Post
My crossover is at 700hz (-48db with MiniDSP). The integration between the woofer and SEOS-18 is very easy in that way.

I have seen some comments on using the B&C DE250 that low, but so far not seen any argument against it. Distortion measurements show now problem and in a home environment there is no SPL problem.

Even when I play very loud no distortion what so ever is noticeable. They can go allot louder than I am able to withstand. I think if you would measure nobody is putting more that 1W in SEOS-18 and still has ears that function properly.

Next to that a 1" driver in general performs better at high frequencies. It also has less beaming.
Very nice! How is your enclosure stuffed? How low does the TD15LO go?

Bill
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Old 18th November 2012, 03:50 PM   #20
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by rocksteady40 View Post
I looked at Dr. Geddes papers and will probably use his approach with multiple subs. I didn't see and mention of horn subs however.
I see no advantage to a horn at LFs. Its a very poor use of space. Better is just a bunch of closed box monpoles placed about the room.

Horns to me are stricktly for the control of directivity and have no real advantages besides that. So they don't make much sense until one reaches the frequency at which they can be effective at directivity control - this is stricktly dependent on size you can live with.
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