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Old 4th November 2012, 07:54 PM   #1
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Question Trinaural decoding equations for 3 speaker stereo matrix ?

Anyone know the decoding equations for Trinaural stereo matrix intended to be used with 3 speakers ?

Trinaural Processor


I cannot find any related patents for James Bongiorno (the supposed designer) nor for the company Spread Spectrum Technologies from Espacenet What no patent ?!?


- Elias
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Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
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Old 4th November 2012, 09:16 PM   #2
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The website states that it uses some kind of vector based approach. I have no idea how one could realise this using an analog system, but it might be similar to the methods outlined in this paper? But perhaps you're already familiar with that paper.
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Old 4th November 2012, 09:21 PM   #3
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See Making 3 front channels out of stereo signal
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Old 4th November 2012, 09:47 PM   #4
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This is nothing more than a Dolby Prologic approach to creating three channels out of two. Depending on how fast the steering logic is, and how good the cross cancellation vectors are used, you are going to get a deep soundstage and more narrow lateral soundstage, or a deep and very wide soundstage. If this processor splits it processing based on frequency(like Prologic II does) the effect is quite good with stereo sources.

As the article says, you have to get use to listening to three channels, as opposed to two. The presentation can be pretty different based on how good the processing is.
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Old 4th November 2012, 10:48 PM   #5
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_tewinkel View Post
it might be similar to the methods outlined in this paper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post
This is nothing more than a Dolby Prologic approach to creating three channels out of two. Depending on how fast the steering logic is, and how good the cross cancellation vectors are used, you are going to get a deep soundstage and more narrow lateral soundstage, or a deep and very wide soundstage. If this processor splits it processing based on frequency(like Prologic II does) the effect is quite good with stereo sources.

Trinaural Processor says:
"the Trinaural Processor is a linear analog device with no digital processing whatsoever"

and based on what internet search gives me it seems to be linear time invariant matrix.

Just lacking the coefficients...


Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
I even read the Austrian thread DIY Trinaural Decoder
DIY Trinaural Decoder - HiFi Forum
but no decoder equations !! I don't know how they manage to do it without coefficients ?? Supernatural powers or thin mountain air ??


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Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
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Old 5th November 2012, 04:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Trinaural Processor says:
"the Trinaural Processor is a linear analog device with no digital processing whatsoever"

and based on what internet search gives me it seems to be linear time invariant matrix.

Just lacking the coefficients...
When I read Jim Fosgate's patent on Dolby Prologic II, it sounds remarkably familar to this approach. His first implementation of DPL II was done entirely in the analog domain, and I have seen and heard it myself in his lab. This is probably why you cannot find any patent on this technology by James Bongiorno, it was already patented by Peter Schreiber or Jim Fosgate - and I am thinking more from the latter than from the former.
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Old 5th November 2012, 10:25 AM   #7
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Lot's of guessing going on here.

It's said the device is linear thus there cannot be any steering logic.


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Old 5th November 2012, 07:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Lot's of guessing going on here.

It's said the device is linear thus there cannot be any steering logic.


- Elias
You are right, lots of guessing. I am curious to find out how they can get more than 3db separation without some sort of logic steering.
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Old 5th November 2012, 08:25 PM   #9
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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It is well known optimum linear matrix provides 6dB electrical separation between the three front channels.
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Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
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Old 5th November 2012, 08:29 PM   #10
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Yes but that's still not very good. And even if ProLogic II is much better than standard linear matrixing, it did not impress me... don't know about you guys...
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