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Old 14th November 2012, 12:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestTones View Post
Show pics of any of your solid wood or ply builds.
I'm betting you can't.
You are either joking or as you only joined in October, you don't know about Planet10. He probably has more designs and completed builds of his speakers than anyone one else on this site. Were talking thousands of builds, of his designs to his specs, which is usually baltic birch ply if obtainable and perfecting designs right down to the holey brace
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Last edited by JRKO; 14th November 2012 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 14th November 2012, 01:43 PM   #22
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I couldn't avoid making the MDF = bad point.
It's throwing out the baby with the bad water.
You eliminate distortion but you also kill a lot of useful sound energy with it.
A thin to medium ply or a solid wood well braced and dampened with a variety of insulation materials will ultimately sound better vented and sealed. My favorite is 1/2 inch textured foam rubber

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Old 14th November 2012, 01:51 PM   #23
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Pardon my ignorance here but I am new to speaker building and so I have many, many questions.

I am under the impression that the whole point of a Hifi system is to reproduce sound accurately, not create sound. So while I agree that the wood type, shape, size, configuration, etc on an instrument is key, I don't see how that translates back into speakers. What is right for s violin is different than a piano or a guitar....and what about brass, drums, vocals, etc...they are not generated from wood to begin with?

I thought the whole point was to have a neural enclosure to hold the drivers that can reproduce all types of recorded sound in an accurate way? If speakers seem dry and lifeless it may be that the bass enclosure was built too large...not the materials.

I am not saying that test tones is wrong, I just have questions about the logic behind the statemens.

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Old 14th November 2012, 02:17 PM   #24
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Created sound would qualify as the distortion everyone wants to eliminate.
Transmitting sound on the other hand is the same thing your speakers are doing and a good cabinet material can help with releasing more of the good energy while canceling the bad if designed and built correctly.
MDF just cancels out acoustic energy period and you hear more of the speaker which is fine if you want your sound texture so be overwhelmingly artificial. It's kind of like people that think fast food tastes delicious?
I find it utterly disgusting.

It's not distortion until it bounces off the panels and crashes into the following wave. MDF more or less shatters the wave. Hence the sputtery sound I notice in vented enclosures made of these cheap composites and super thick laminates.

A good example of positive resonance is laptops.
Some higher end laptops have a small bottom speaker designed to turn your desk into a transducer. Lift your laptop up off a desk to find out, you'll know instantly.
Mine that recently died was about 5 times louder sitting on a plastic desk but hands down sounded the best on a wooden desk or table. Lift it off the desk, it turns into a whimper.

It's a matter of salvaging the good energy when removing the bad.
Lazy, cheap builders just discard both rather than use their brain and put in the necessary hard work.

I challenge anyone to build from a thinner ply or a solid wood, even pine to do this. Brace all corners/seams with 2x2 solid wood. Dampen 50% of the cabinet starting in the middle of all panels and towards the back. Don't dampen the speaker baffle and obviously, immediate sides, top and bottom. I like foam rubber floor mats and the good old fashion pillow batting.

I know with certainty it will shame an MDF or huge thick birch cab of identical design and drivers only with mdf or birch bracing and no dampening material.

Last edited by TestTones; 14th November 2012 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 14th November 2012, 02:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestTones View Post
Meanwhile any guitar or bass cab made out of real wood or even cheap pine ply will sound better than any MDF cab with the same speakers.
Most instrument cabs are made from OSB...a bespoke one may be ply or solid wood, IF it was desired. Making anything but fire out of pine is a waste, except its nicer for kindling than MDF, which is mostly pine sawdust in my neck of the woods...
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Old 14th November 2012, 03:02 PM   #26
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Old 14th November 2012, 03:24 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestTones View Post
Created sound would qualify as the distortion everyone wants to eliminate.
Transmitting sound on the other hand is the same thing your speakers are doing and a good cabinet material can help with releasing more of the good energy while canceling the bad if designed and built correctly.
MDF just cancels out acoustic energy period and you hear more of the speaker which is fine if you want your sound texture so be overwhelmingly artificial.
How do you measure good energy vs. bad energy?
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Old 14th November 2012, 03:49 PM   #28
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Also, cost can be an issue for low to mid level speaker manufacturers but for a company that makes and sells only the best and charges a fortune for them, I would expect to see all the best materials.

Are there any ultrs high-end speaker mfgs that use ply instead of mdf for the cabinets?
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Old 14th November 2012, 04:02 PM   #29
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Old 14th November 2012, 04:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestTones View Post
MDF just cancels out acoustic energy period
Planet10 can put it better than me so its best to quote ''Hign mass is a myth (lots of myths started by marketing departments to help them shrink costs). If you have 2 materials with the same stiffness, the light one is better. MDF is both less stiff and denser [than BB]. A good receipe for energy storage.........you should be comparing 3/4" MDF to 12mm BB. 18mm BB to 1 1/4" MDF. Particle board is better than MDF, but harder to work with."

I think that clears up the MDF 'thing'

Quote:
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How do you measure good energy vs. bad energy?
Its where in the frequency range that energy becomes audible. It is energy and will come out somehow. If you can push it up out of range so as not to be excited by the driver as best as possible you're on to a winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooshball View Post
Also, cost can be an issue for low to mid level speaker manufacturers but for a company that makes and sells only the best and charges a fortune for them, I would expect to see all the best materials.

Are there any ultrs high-end speaker mfgs that use ply instead of mdf for the cabinets?
I know some use fancy resins/compounds etc but I would be surprised if many $2.5k speakers weren't made of MDF. Its the low sale volume, big $$ items that 'should' used better materials. You'll also find you can buy the majority of the hi-end speakers drivers and make a better one yourself for less

I would say that bracing material choice would depend on bracing strategy, or vice versa. You could try dowels of metal or perspex, strips of dense real wood across panels, a plywood holey brace, clamping the front panel to the rear with threaded rod.

when you say bracing I immediately think of bracing the driver, which is the source of all energy/resonance in the speaker.
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