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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 6th March 2013, 03:23 PM   #41
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Originally Posted by KLBIrd View Post
Here is my version of the single stereo system. Three four inch mids with Piezos in a separate chamber with a sealed ten inch DVC with the crossover at 400HZ. OK, the color is strange but I had the paint left over and what else to you do with MDF?

It needs a narrow room ten feet of less to give stereo, however place it in a corner and you get some good imaging and of course more bass than you need.
The Piezos are attenuated 6dB to match the mids and the center channel is down 3dB. An interesting experiment that saves you some wood and work but it was tried in fifties and sixties but never caught on.
Looks good

You are right the room width should be in correct proportion to the listening distance. In practise narrow rooms are better for this concept. Shoebox room is ideal.

Did you implement any psychoacoustic filter ?

That is interesting you mention early trials of this concept in 50's / 60's, can you tell more specificly who what when ?


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Old 6th March 2013, 04:34 PM   #42
KLBIrd is offline KLBIrd  United States
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Derived third channels were used by a number of manufacturers in the early day of stereo.

Here are a few references;

Tremain, Howard, The Audio Cyclopedia-Howards W. Sams, 1969-Page 1138. Paragraph 20.154 Method For Deriving a Third Channel.

Cohen, Abraham-Hi Fi Lousdpeakers and Enclosures, Hayden Books, 1968-Chapter 27, Electrical Third Channel

Klipsch, Paul-Volume II Audio Amateur Publications-Audiocraft Magazine,
January 1958, Page 37, Simplified Phantom Third Channel

However, your approach is unique with the high steering circuit. I did not see a great deal of difference in trying the steering circuit but I will continue to do some additional experimentation with it.
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Old 6th March 2013, 07:35 PM   #43
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Originally Posted by KLBIrd View Post
Derived third channels were used by a number of manufacturers in the early day of stereo.

Here are a few references;

Tremain, Howard, The Audio Cyclopedia-Howards W. Sams, 1969-Page 1138. Paragraph 20.154 Method For Deriving a Third Channel.

Cohen, Abraham-Hi Fi Lousdpeakers and Enclosures, Hayden Books, 1968-Chapter 27, Electrical Third Channel

Klipsch, Paul-Volume II Audio Amateur Publications-Audiocraft Magazine,
January 1958, Page 37, Simplified Phantom Third Channel

However, your approach is unique with the high steering circuit. I did not see a great deal of difference in trying the steering circuit but I will continue to do some additional experimentation with it.

Thanks for those references. I didn't find any of them with google though They may be too vintage for modern information highway. I'm guessing they describe a method to derive third signal channel from two stereo channels, and they are fed to three loudspeakers ?

Yes three loudspeakers have been experimentally used for 2 channel stereo reproduction since the early days of radio. But I havent seen similar matrixed speaker integrated in one small box. I know there are MS stereo speakers done before, but they use different matrix than x=0.5.

So, I thought I'll integrate room side wall reflections into the equation and voilá single speaker stereo was born

About the filter, as the effect depends on the room geometry and wall absorption and listening preference, it may take a while to find the optimum.

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Old 6th March 2013, 11:44 PM   #44
KLBIrd is offline KLBIrd  United States
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Yes Elia those are vintage references but at age 73, I am also vintage. Attached is a vintage idea that I may try for larger rooms. Hinged reflectors mounted on the cabinet rear so they can be adjusted to control the spread. This was used in a Bozak system and Electro Voice also had a version. I write for Audio Express Magazine and am thinking of writing an article on my version of your system for publication in the fall. If so, I will certainly give you full credit for the concept. Let me know if you would approve of same.
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Old 7th March 2013, 01:13 PM   #45
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Originally Posted by KLBIrd View Post
Yes Elia those are vintage references but at age 73, I am also vintage. Attached is a vintage idea that I may try for larger rooms. Hinged reflectors mounted on the cabinet rear so they can be adjusted to control the spread. This was used in a Bozak system and Electro Voice also had a version. I write for Audio Express Magazine and am thinking of writing an article on my version of your system for publication in the fall. If so, I will certainly give you full credit for the concept. Let me know if you would approve of same.
There was some disscussion here at diyaudio about Bozak including the one with hinged doors. It is inspiring to see the early experimenters had fresh ideas at their time, now being forgotten long ago.

I have no problem you writing to Audio Express about your build. Hopefully it gets published

Good listening and 73s, as hams use to say


- Elias
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Old 7th March 2013, 02:42 PM   #46
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My '59 Motorola SK32W console is three channel. The center channel is derived before the amp.
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Old 7th March 2013, 03:10 PM   #47
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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My '59 Motorola SK32W console is three channel. The center channel is derived before the amp.
Any idea of the matrix coefficients, or how the wiring is done ?
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Old 7th March 2013, 03:10 PM   #48
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Thanks for those references. I didn't find any of them with google though They may be too vintage for modern information highway.
Ha. I'm reminded of the line from LOTR:

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Well obviously a few of us still live, but I find precious little "new" (about loudspeakers) that you won't find in the pages of "Audio" magazine from the 1960's . . .
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Old 7th March 2013, 07:04 PM   #49
KLBIrd is offline KLBIrd  United States
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Elias, here a third channel circuit from Paul Klipsch in 1958. OK on the Article, I will keep you posted.
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Old 7th March 2013, 07:06 PM   #50
KLBIrd is offline KLBIrd  United States
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For some reason it did not load, here it is again.
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