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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 11th December 2012, 01:47 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
I just have to stop here and say to John Kreskowsky,

Merry Christmas!
And A Happy New Year!

Thank you for being so helpful to all us diyers for so many years. Your work on dipoles is remarkable and You go on helping us besides your own business.

If I just could get the WAF adjusted, I'd build your speakers for my living room set! That is my daydream now.

Juha
Thank you very much for your kind comments. I keep trying the make improve the WAF of my speakers but I suppose that the major sticking point is simply size.

Best wishes to you and all for the coming holidays and the New Year.
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Old 11th December 2012, 02:14 PM   #202
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Would the vertical polars look any better if the drivers were moved closer together along the vertical axis? I don't think there would be a concern for waves wrapping around the top prematurely.
Well, As you know, I never let things go without checking. So thins morning I took an old test baffle and looked at measurement with the drivers laid out as they are now, and moving the lower mid up so that the mounting flanges of the mids touched. They can't be any closer. The position of the lower midrange relative to the side panels was unchanged by removing material from the bottom of the baffle. I.E. the lower mid remained the same height off the floor. The baffle shape also remained unchanged. Thus the effect is that due to the angled edges of the baffle being much closed to the lower midrange mounting flange. The result was a loss of 1dB sensitivity below 700 Hz. Not a lot but still requiring 25% more power to achieve the same SPL as with the original baffle. Simulations of the polar response did not show what I would consider significant differences until out past 30 degrees. So it looks like a wash to me. You are not going to gain much in polar response and you are going to loose a dB in sensitivity below 700 Hz.
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Old 11th December 2012, 03:28 PM   #203
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Simulations of the polar response did not show what I would consider significant differences until out past 30 degrees.
And what happens then? What do actual measurements show happens? Does it all "wash out" in the overall mish-mash of room reflections, with no effect on first reflections or power response?

We give up a whole lot more than 1dB for the dipole pattern in the first place . . . maybe one dB more is not too high a price for a more nearly point source radiator and more nearly dipole behavior on all axis . . .
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Old 11th December 2012, 03:55 PM   #204
SAC is offline SAC  United Kingdom
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Hi John

Does it matter if the sub is separated from the upper panel? LX521 does this, but if done on the Note II will the minidsp settings need changing in some way?
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Old 11th December 2012, 04:36 PM   #205
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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[QUOTE=john k...;3280337]Thank you very much for your kind comments. I keep trying the make improve the WAF of my speakers but I suppose that the major sticking point is simply size.

Sorry John, I meant that I wish to adjust my W's A. There's nothing peculiar with your speakers, because form follows function. And to me a well working gadget is always beautiful.

Juha ("John" during English classes at school)
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Last edited by Juhazi; 11th December 2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 11th December 2012, 07:42 PM   #206
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And what happens then? What do actual measurements show happens? Does it all "wash out" in the overall mish-mash of room reflections, with no effect on first reflections or power response?

We give up a whole lot more than 1dB for the dipole pattern in the first place . . . maybe one dB more is not too high a price for a more nearly point source radiator and more nearly dipole behavior on all axis . . .
My point was that moving the drivers closer still doesn't come close to making anything point source like and remember it's still a dipole in the vertical direction, more or less. But the 1dB in sensitivity is over a wide band width, not just around the crossover point. The reality is how the system sounds; very good. The bigger issue with polar response is between the tweeter and the upper mid, and these isn't anything that can be done about that. As SL said about the LX521, listen sitting down.

I don't know why people get their panties all up in a bunch because they can't listen to there system hanging upside down from a trapeze hung from the ceiling.

Anyway, I'm not about to change anything for the sake of changing it.
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Old 11th December 2012, 07:47 PM   #207
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[QUOTE=Juhazi;3280560]
Quote:
Originally Posted by john k... View Post
Thank you very much for your kind comments. I keep trying the make improve the WAF of my speakers but I suppose that the major sticking point is simply size.

Sorry John, I meant that I wish to adjust my W's A. There's nothing peculiar with your speakers, because form follows function. And to me a well working gadget is always beautiful.

Juha ("John" during English classes at school)
I understood what you meant. I'm just working on WAF form the other end. Yes, form follows function, but you don't always want to show everything you've got. A little mystery goes a long way. At least that what my high school girl friends would tell me.
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Old 11th December 2012, 08:09 PM   #208
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Hi John

Does it matter if the sub is separated from the upper panel? LX521 does this, but if done on the Note II will the minidsp settings need changing in some way?
The speaker was designed to have the woofer system integrated into the speaker. I really can not speculate on what would be required if the woofer were separated. If you are just referring to there being a mechanical connection between the woofer cabinet and the main panel I don't see a particular advantage or benefit from isolating them.
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Old 11th December 2012, 10:23 PM   #209
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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I don't know why people get their panties all up in a bunch because they can't listen to there system hanging upside down from a trapeze hung from the ceiling.
Reflections. Some people care about them, some don't.

My sense of it is that the ceiling and floor play a significant role in overall power response and the perception of it. The vertical MTM is a clear example . . . it can sound fine in the near field and yet have an obvious and significant signature at a distance in a real room.

I like to move around when listening, so I'm more attentive to a broad "listening area" than I am to a prefered sit-down "sweet spot" (it probably bugged SL that I spent almost no time in the "preferred chair" while auditioning the LX521 . . . but I was in that case concentrating on the "sound" of the midrange, not on third-point-of-the-triangle imaging).
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Old 11th December 2012, 10:33 PM   #210
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I like to move around when listening, so I'm more attentive to a broad "listening area" than I am to a prefered sit-down "sweet spot"
But that's what recordings are optimized for, a single listening position.
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