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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 10th December 2012, 04:37 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
Active crossover sure does wash out driver differences, doesn't it . I suspect that you could sub a number of other drivers in there with at most only very minor changes in the configuration files. This kind of driver independence is a major advantage of (especially digital) active crossovers.
The first thing I did was to measure the 8554 and 8434 under the exact same conditions. Except for the differences well below the 110 x-o point, due to different Q's, and the differences well above the 1k Hz Lp point, due to differences in break up, they were identical to within small fractions of a dB. Those Scan Speak engineers are good! I'm sure they may have slightly different nonlinear distortion, but I'm equally sure that isn't an issue.
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Old 10th December 2012, 05:14 PM   #192
dlr is offline dlr  United States
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So, if you have a couple of 8554 mids laying around gathering dust, build a Note II RS!
I have a pair. They're not gathering dust, they're in a box. Never used them. Too much else to work on.

I wonder how my Genelec dipoles would fare. As you know, my arrangement is a slightly modified H-frame and may not be as deep as yours, so the dipole moment is likely different. I think the overall width is a bit more as well, maybe by 1-1.5".

The final cost of the mid-tweeter section would be low. I even have two extra 6-channel amps (the Kenwood THX). These really are gathering dust. Just got to replace or bypass (cheapskate method) the startup relays in the second one.

The single biggest expense for me at the moment would be the MiniDSP. Or I could use the UE, just have to get an update to do 2x4. I have a Delta-1010 as well, ready to install, had planned to use it for my next system.

I'll have to give this some consideration. I still like "rolling my own", so-to-speak. But given that I already have most of what is needed (if the Genelecs can work), it's hard to resist.

dlr
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Old 10th December 2012, 06:04 PM   #193
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Originally Posted by dlr View Post
in a box. . . . really are gathering dust. . . ready to install, had planned to use it
Sounds like my shop . . . . . . chock full of "stuff" bought for something that never happened (or maybe saved "just in case" from something that did, but was abandoned), waiting to be used for something . . .
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Old 10th December 2012, 08:17 PM   #194
dlr is offline dlr  United States
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Sounds like my shop . . . . . . chock full of "stuff" bought for something that never happened (or maybe saved "just in case" from something that did, but was abandoned), waiting to be used for something . . .
Most of mine were: bought on sale...someone selling half price...I know I'll use them...even have baffles cut for a few of them...

That did work out a bit. My current system uses SS15W dipole for the midrange with the DXT tweeter. Both did gather dust for a looong time. I forget how long the Genelecs (buyouts) were in the box. I couldn't pass them up at $15 apiece. The DXTs were the only drivers purchased at full price.

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Old 10th December 2012, 11:10 PM   #195
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The baffles are not the same, very similar but not identical. Over all they do have the same height and width, but the side panel on the new version add to the effective width and all that had to be taken into account. However, the location of the midrange in v2 is positioned on consideration of the polar response. The driver was moved down a little so there would not be too much "wrap around" over the top.
If I understand you correctly, you mean to say tjat having more vertical spacing than is absolutely necessary, actually improves the polar response?
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Old 11th December 2012, 12:04 AM   #196
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If I understand you correctly, you mean to say tjat having more vertical spacing than is absolutely necessary, actually improves the polar response?
I guess what I said was worded poorly. The position of the lower mid was determined to have sufficient front to back effective separation get the dipole peak as low as possible while maintaining good dipole polar response to frequencies above the crossover point. In this way the low frequency dipole boost is minimized. If you look at my FAQ, question 8, I show the polar response of the lower mid alone.

I'm sure other baffles would work equally well but I felt comfortable with this one with regards to how the mids integrated and how the system sounds. But its certainly not the only solution. There was a bit of evolution in the design. Originally the baffle was to be wider without side panels. Then when I redesigned the NaO II I decided to carry the basic look over to this speaker. In fact, I will be refining the original Note to have side panels as well so the look will be consistent for all my speakers.
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Old 11th December 2012, 01:23 AM   #197
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I guess the obvious question (cost aside) is how you think the new Note compares to the old one? Is there a semi-definitive answer?

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Old 11th December 2012, 12:33 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
I guess what I said was worded poorly. The position of the lower mid was determined to have sufficient front to back effective separation get the dipole peak as low as possible while maintaining good dipole polar response to frequencies above the crossover point. In this way the low frequency dipole boost is minimized. If you look at my FAQ, question 8, I show the polar response of the lower mid alone.

I'm sure other baffles would work equally well but I felt comfortable with this one with regards to how the mids integrated and how the system sounds. But its certainly not the only solution. There was a bit of evolution in the design. Originally the baffle was to be wider without side panels. Then when I redesigned the NaO II I decided to carry the basic look over to this speaker. In fact, I will be refining the original Note to have side panels as well so the look will be consistent for all my speakers.
Would the vertical polars look any better if the drivers were moved closer together along the vertical axis? I don't think there would be a concern for waves wrapping around the top prematurely.
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Old 11th December 2012, 01:06 PM   #199
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I guess the obvious question (cost aside) is how you think the new Note compares to the old one? Is there a semi-definitive answer?

That is a very tough question to answer. I feel all my system have their strong points. Each system, starting with the NaO II was designed with specific objectives, one of which was to reduce cost. At the same time I have tried to keep the systems sounding as consistent as possible. The Note V1 and V2 do indeed sound very similar. V1 has greater low frequency capability but the integration with the tweeter is better in V2. The NaO II is a little different since it does not have the upper midrange coupler and even with the 2.2k crossover the tweeter there is a broadening of the polar response which seems to be the biggest difference between the three system.

The other point to realize is the the NaO II is a fairly flexible design. It can be build as a hybrid, bi-amped system, a tri-amped fully active analog system, or in either format with the miniDSP digital crossover replacing the analog unit. The Note I is only a bi-amped hybrid with analog or digital crossover. The Note II is only fully active, digital. So pick your poison. Personally I'm partial to the NaO II. It does some thing I don't think the Note versions do. But top to bottom, cost no object, the Note II is probably the most refined.
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Old 11th December 2012, 02:27 PM   #200
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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I just have to stop here and say to John Kreskowsky,

Merry Christmas!
And A Happy New Year!

Thank you for being so helpful to all us diyers for so many years. Your work on dipoles is remarkable and You go on helping us besides your own business.

If I just could get the WAF adjusted, I'd build your speakers for my living room set! That is my daydream now.

Juha
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