NaO Note II RS - Page 15 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th December 2012, 03:20 AM   #141
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Given the use of the active crossover, would it be possible to substitute a different mid driver? I have a spare pair of Seas W22s gathering dust.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 11:35 AM   #142
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfdoddsy View Post
Given the use of the active crossover, would it be possible to substitute a different mid driver? I have a spare pair of Seas W22s gathering dust.
Not only possible, but easy, obvious and exactly what I'm going to do. The W22 has proven itself exemplary from 100 Hz. to 1400 Hz. . . . clearly dropping the upper crossover to 1000 Hz. or below is not going to compromise its performance. The choice of upper mids is wide open . . . one could use the Scan that John uses, or the Seas "SL", or the Tang Band W4-1337 (certainly the first choice if price matters) or any of a raft of other potentially "interesting" 4" drivers. The demands on the tweeter are so slight that almost anything would do.

The real question is whether to duplicate SL's innovative baffle design (almost an "ah ha" moment at first look). Clearly his intent was to address the vertical polar deficiencies of more "trad" designs . . . whether the shape is as acoustically effective as it is visually striking is not so clear. The close driver spacing has obvious advantage . . . putting the rear tweeter at the top not so much . . . it could go anywhere, reducing the overall height (and visual impact).

But the W22 . . . yes . . . automated active crossover design has made driver selection an almost trivial "plug-and-play" exercise (and it's a great driver) . . .
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 12:14 PM   #143
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
Not only possible, but easy, obvious and exactly what I'm going to do. The W22 has proven itself exemplary from 100 Hz. to 1400 Hz. . . . clearly dropping the upper crossover to 1000 Hz. or below is not going to compromise its performance. The choice of upper mids is wide open . . . one could use the Scan that John uses, or the Seas "SL", or the Tang Band W4-1337 (certainly the first choice if price matters) or any of a raft of other potentially "interesting" 4" drivers. The demands on the tweeter are so slight that almost anything would do.

The real question is whether to duplicate SL's innovative baffle design (almost an "ah ha" moment at first look). Clearly his intent was to address the vertical polar deficiencies of more "trad" designs . . . whether the shape is as acoustically effective as it is visually striking is not so clear. The close driver spacing has obvious advantage . . . putting the rear tweeter at the top not so much . . . it could go anywhere, reducing the overall height (and visual impact).

But the W22 . . . yes . . . automated active crossover design has made driver selection an almost trivial "plug-and-play" exercise (and it's a great driver) . . .
Seas L16RN-SL? This shares much in common with W22, and its use much above 1kHz is to be avoided. Nasty metal cone break up.

Regards,

Andrew
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 12:32 PM   #144
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywater View Post
Seas L16RN-SL?
No, the SEAS MU10RB-SL . . . the upper-midrange in the LX521. Thought that would be obvious to anyone following a 4-way dipole design thread . . . (and the L16 is obviously not a 4" driver).

Last edited by dewardh; 5th December 2012 at 12:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 01:35 PM   #145
diyAudio Member
 
john k...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfdoddsy View Post
Given the use of the active crossover, would it be possible to substitute a different mid driver? I have a spare pair of Seas W22s gathering dust.
You could use any drivers you like and design your own system. I've already been asked if the speaker could be adapted to the SS 8554. Since I have them on hand I indicated I would be glad to make the adaptation. I looked at a number of upper midrange drivers when I designed the original Note. Most did not fair too well. The TangBang were not so good. Plus, most of the crop of these smaller drivers are in the 85dB/2.83 V range, or lower. The SSD 10F is around 90. That is a big plus when it comes to blending it with the lower mid.

If you wanted to send me the W22s I would be willing to do a one off for you. Would take some time. However, I don't think the midrange will be as good. The SSD mids (upper and lower) use the same cone material and that affects how they blend. I'm not a fan of metal cones.

FYI here is a plot of the response of the SS and XXLS woofer based on near field measurements corrected to far field dipole response. I really can see the need for the XXLS since with the 30 Hz B4 cut off I have yet to be limited by max SPL listening, for example, to Telarc recordings of the Rite of Spring or the Firebird.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 02:55 PM   #146
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by john k... View Post
Plus, most of the crop of these smaller drivers are in the 85dB/2.83 V range, or lower. The SSD 10F is around 90. That is a big plus when it comes to blending it with the lower mid.
A "big plus"? What difference does sensitivity make when you're designing with an active crossover?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 04:40 PM   #147
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfield, IA
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
A "big plus"? What difference does sensitivity make when you're designing with an active crossover?
If you are using a digital crossover it is useful to have drivers with comparable sensitivity, or use analog level matching stages, otherwise you have to do the level matching in digital and possibly lose a bit or two of resolution for the driver that exhibits the most sensitivity - usually the mids and hf, which is precisely where you want more resolution, not less.

It is for this reason that DEQX implements a selectable gain analog output, using jumpers, so that e.g. with a 94dB sens. mid array, if you have a woofer section that clocks in at 84dB, one can then add +10dB gain to the woofer. Otherwise, you have to digitally "cut" 10dB from the mids and highs, and in doing that you lose almost 2 bits of resolution.

Some here will undoubtedly ask: Is it audible? Well, I have a DEQX, I've done the comparisons, and for me the answer is a resounding YES. There's a reason DEQX added the extra gain flexibility, and it shows in the sonics. Hardware-wise it's a very well thought out product.
__________________
Commercial Site: www.HolisticAudio.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 04:50 PM   #148
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Caldwell View Post
If you are using a digital crossover it is useful to have drivers with comparable sensitivity, or use analog level matching stages, otherwise you have to do the level matching in digital and possibly lose a bit or two of resolution
It's not exactly difficult to "normalize" all drivers to the same sensitivity by setting amplifier gain, but even if one doesn't the miniDSP is a 24 bit device, so you're not going to lose any usefull resolution with a bit or two of digital gain adjustment.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 05:10 PM   #149
tomtom is offline tomtom  Slovakia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
2 resistors in signal cable connector on AMP end. Or 3 in case of balanced connection. Be careful about impedance matching.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 05:47 PM   #150
diyAudio Member
 
john k...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
A "big plus"? What difference does sensitivity make when you're designing with an active crossover?
Note surprisingly you took my comments out of context. Never the less, as has been pointed out there are good reasons to use drivers with close sensitivity ratings in passive as well as active systems, digital or analog.

But, what I said was,

Quote:
I looked at a number of upper midrange drivers when I designed the original Note. Most did not fair too well. The TangBang were not so good. Plus, most of the crop of these smaller drivers are in the 85dB/2.83 V range, or lower.
Recall that in the original Note the complete panel was passive.
__________________
John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NaO Note preview gainphile Multi-Way 161 19th December 2012 10:53 AM
NaO II RS gainphile Multi-Way 18 7th March 2012 10:28 PM
NaO II and miniDSP john k... miniDSP 27 31st July 2011 11:51 AM
FS: Audio Note TRANS-010; Audio Note 20H 50mA choke; Black Gate Wk "power tank" Joseph0 Swap Meet 1 24th May 2006 05:17 AM
RS Labs RS-A1 Tonearm New Unused Boxed mozfet Swap Meet 4 6th September 2004 10:51 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:44 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2