If a tweeter has a 100 watt specification, at what frequency can it handle this amount of power? The resonance frequency is 850Hz and the recommended crossover frequency is at 3000Hz. Can a tweeter handle more power at a higher frequency and does the crossover order have any effect power handling? Thanks, Adrian.
Welcome to the forum fellow Aussie.
Power handling of tweeters is quite confusing........you are not alone!
I respectfully disagree with the second post; crossover frequency DOES alter power handling at least if we are listening to music. (true, cotdt WAS discussing sine waves)
Usually a manufacturer will "de-rate" the power handling of tweeters and mid-range units if used at a lower frequency. Copious sheets of data from Vifa, DIY application books from Philips etc confirm this.
Secondly, the specification sheets can be confusing because they will often give an RMS figure and a "music power" figure. The latter is always higher. The 'music' figure recognises the real world situation where we usually listen to music which is almost always highly variable in its content........now bass notes.....then a lot of treble etc. The nature of music means that a driver seldom has to carry the same frequency at a constant level for very long. Hence the "music" rating is sometimes called "the instantaneous" power rating. This leads some manufacturers to give a steady state or RMS figure of, say 30 Watts, and then an instantaneous figure of far higher......200 or so.
Dynaudio was often quoting figures in the 1000 watt area.
This is confusing.....
Now if you are asking this question with a view to using a tweeter in a system you will find that a 100 watt rating will probably be fine in a domestic situation. You will in fact probably only be using a few watts anyway and the odd loud transient will not be more than a few 10's of watts and last for a few milli-seconds. Some serious namufacturer will quote TIME (i.e duration of the signal) and power which is much more helpful.
There is a paradox here to. If an amp "clips" there can be a spray of high frequency distortion products that the tweeter may not handle well. So the advice is often given that it is better to use a higher power amp that is not driven into clipping than a small 10 watt version that may be driven into overload and damage speakers. Okay? So 100 may be "safer" than a smaller 10 watt one.
Now cross over order. Here there are two items running. Higher order networks reduce the stress on a driver by (A) limiting the mechanical excursion of cone/dome because the diaphragm movement increases with decreasing frequency and (B) they will reduce thermal stress. The power in most music is in the lower frequencies and reducing them reduces the power fed to the driver.
Hope this is helpful. I started looking at this material about 40 years ago and it is not easy to get your head around at first.
I would encourage you to read around the area and persevere as it makes sense eventually.
I haven't tried it but "speaker power handling" in Google will probably reveal a mountain of stuff.....
Good luck,
Cheers, Jonathan (Brisbane)
Power handling of tweeters is quite confusing........you are not alone!
I respectfully disagree with the second post; crossover frequency DOES alter power handling at least if we are listening to music. (true, cotdt WAS discussing sine waves)
Usually a manufacturer will "de-rate" the power handling of tweeters and mid-range units if used at a lower frequency. Copious sheets of data from Vifa, DIY application books from Philips etc confirm this.
Secondly, the specification sheets can be confusing because they will often give an RMS figure and a "music power" figure. The latter is always higher. The 'music' figure recognises the real world situation where we usually listen to music which is almost always highly variable in its content........now bass notes.....then a lot of treble etc. The nature of music means that a driver seldom has to carry the same frequency at a constant level for very long. Hence the "music" rating is sometimes called "the instantaneous" power rating. This leads some manufacturers to give a steady state or RMS figure of, say 30 Watts, and then an instantaneous figure of far higher......200 or so.
Dynaudio was often quoting figures in the 1000 watt area.
This is confusing.....
Now if you are asking this question with a view to using a tweeter in a system you will find that a 100 watt rating will probably be fine in a domestic situation. You will in fact probably only be using a few watts anyway and the odd loud transient will not be more than a few 10's of watts and last for a few milli-seconds. Some serious namufacturer will quote TIME (i.e duration of the signal) and power which is much more helpful.
There is a paradox here to. If an amp "clips" there can be a spray of high frequency distortion products that the tweeter may not handle well. So the advice is often given that it is better to use a higher power amp that is not driven into clipping than a small 10 watt version that may be driven into overload and damage speakers. Okay? So 100 may be "safer" than a smaller 10 watt one.
Now cross over order. Here there are two items running. Higher order networks reduce the stress on a driver by (A) limiting the mechanical excursion of cone/dome because the diaphragm movement increases with decreasing frequency and (B) they will reduce thermal stress. The power in most music is in the lower frequencies and reducing them reduces the power fed to the driver.
Hope this is helpful. I started looking at this material about 40 years ago and it is not easy to get your head around at first.
I would encourage you to read around the area and persevere as it makes sense eventually.
I haven't tried it but "speaker power handling" in Google will probably reveal a mountain of stuff.....
Good luck,
Cheers, Jonathan (Brisbane)
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That tweeter is okay with that amp, so long as it's not driven to clipping, using at least a 12db/oct crossover at 3k.
That style of tweeter is really something less than able to handle a continuous 30 watt sine input, over double the resonant frequency, without overheating. Below resonance you can mechanically destroy the leadwires or suspension with a couple watts and not a very long time. At 2k and 6db/oct, for example, I'd recommend a 35 watt amp or less, run clean.
That style of tweeter is really something less than able to handle a continuous 30 watt sine input, over double the resonant frequency, without overheating. Below resonance you can mechanically destroy the leadwires or suspension with a couple watts and not a very long time. At 2k and 6db/oct, for example, I'd recommend a 35 watt amp or less, run clean.
Hi Keswick
Also most power handling ratings are "System Power" ratings so if most of the music power is in the bass and mid-range then the tweeter is really only handling about 10% of the music signal.
If the amp is putting out 100 watts music then the tweeter really is getting only about 10 watts, that tweeter does need a second order XO tho and i crossed mine a lot higher 4500 LR in a 3-way
Also most power handling ratings are "System Power" ratings so if most of the music power is in the bass and mid-range then the tweeter is really only handling about 10% of the music signal.
If the amp is putting out 100 watts music then the tweeter really is getting only about 10 watts, that tweeter does need a second order XO tho and i crossed mine a lot higher 4500 LR in a 3-way
I agree with post #2. The tweeter has a couple of factors that result in very low actual power being delivered to its voice coil.
1. By using a crossover at or above 2k Hz, much of the "power" in the music signal is filtered out because it is occurring at frequencies that are lower than this.
2. The relative power that does occur in music signals above 2k Hz (for instance) is less than for below this frequency. This has to do with the power spectrum of music, which is concentrated in a band between 100Hz and 2000Hz or there abouts.
This is why a manufacturer can state "100W power handling". What is not often stated is "only when an appropriate crossover is used" although sometimes you do see the crossover spec. mentioned. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that a tweeter will last very long if 100W of power are fed to it! Have you ever seen a tweeter voice coil? The wire is like thread. There is very little nearby mass into which heat can dissipate, especially so for neo tweeters. Remember 99% of power input is dissipated as HEAT! No way in H-E double hockey sticks can a tweeter actually accept much power input my friend.
On the flip side, I often see Tang Band tweeters quoted as having 10W power handling. This may be the actual spec for broad band power input, at least one that I could believe for an instant.
-Charlie
1. By using a crossover at or above 2k Hz, much of the "power" in the music signal is filtered out because it is occurring at frequencies that are lower than this.
2. The relative power that does occur in music signals above 2k Hz (for instance) is less than for below this frequency. This has to do with the power spectrum of music, which is concentrated in a band between 100Hz and 2000Hz or there abouts.
This is why a manufacturer can state "100W power handling". What is not often stated is "only when an appropriate crossover is used" although sometimes you do see the crossover spec. mentioned. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that a tweeter will last very long if 100W of power are fed to it! Have you ever seen a tweeter voice coil? The wire is like thread. There is very little nearby mass into which heat can dissipate, especially so for neo tweeters. Remember 99% of power input is dissipated as HEAT! No way in H-E double hockey sticks can a tweeter actually accept much power input my friend.
On the flip side, I often see Tang Band tweeters quoted as having 10W power handling. This may be the actual spec for broad band power input, at least one that I could believe for an instant.
-Charlie
Some tweeters are rated at their power survivability for that stand alone device.
Most tweeters are rated for the system power in a passive crossover speaker.
If the two way has a 100W rating and the crossover is at some kHz value, then the tweeter sees only a proportion of the average power fed to the speaker.
If some very loud (50W average power) multi-frequency music is fed to the 100W speaker from a 100W amplifier then you may find that the tweeter sees just 5W of average power and the tweeter survives.
Now apply a swept sinewave (single tone) into that 100W speaker from a 100W amplifier with the sinewave "power" set to 50W. The tweeter will almost certainly not survive.
You must read the specification and determine whether the power rating of the tweeter is s system power rating or a device power rating. It makes a very big difference.
Most tweeters are rated for the system power in a passive crossover speaker.
If the two way has a 100W rating and the crossover is at some kHz value, then the tweeter sees only a proportion of the average power fed to the speaker.
If some very loud (50W average power) multi-frequency music is fed to the 100W speaker from a 100W amplifier then you may find that the tweeter sees just 5W of average power and the tweeter survives.
Now apply a swept sinewave (single tone) into that 100W speaker from a 100W amplifier with the sinewave "power" set to 50W. The tweeter will almost certainly not survive.
You must read the specification and determine whether the power rating of the tweeter is s system power rating or a device power rating. It makes a very big difference.
with tweeters, what else is there
besides, isn't the standard word in use, rated power...
kind of says it, doesn't it
with PA compression drivers, it seem usually to involve 12db filter at a given minimum frequency
with hifi tweeters, there may be a certain 'known standard', which means minimum 12db, and crossed sensibly around 2.5khz
anyway, isn't power handling where the voice coil begins to boil, melting the glue and laquer, deforming the voice coil former etc etc
and nothing to do with whether it distorts or not
then power compression would be more useful to know
Hi,
a) At no frequency can it handle 100W.
b) Yes in that for lower frequencies you can drive it into excursion limiting.
c) Crossover order, frequency and any attenuation all affect the power handling.
For most modern tweeters with sensible speaker design you simply
don't have to worry about power handling with sensible amplification.
Some tweeters can handle lower x/o points, some can't, but
you need to look at the distortion profile, not the specs to tell.
rgds, sreten.
The most important thing in avoiding tweeter burn out is the average power delivered to the tweeter.
A heavily clipped amp can usually put out 3 dB more power than when unclipped, and that power, being clip limited, has more average power.
Clipping also creates high frequency harmonics, so the tweeter gets a higher share of the power than the recording would dictate.
That said, as Sreten points out:
"For most modern tweeters with sensible speaker design you simply
don't have to worry about power handling with sensible amplification."
With the caveat of sensible music being played through that amplification, "music" consisting of high frequency full scale sine or square waves could have as much as 100 times the average power as typical dynamic music.
Art
If the signal was white noise, then maybe.
But music is not white noise (ok ok ... some music may sound that way...), the power spectrum of music is sloping down from low to high frequencies, so the power actually sent to the tweeter when playing music is very very low.
The voice coil of a typical 1" dome tweeter can not tolerate more than 5W continuous power. But you have to play very loud to reach that power level with music.
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