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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 26th December 2012, 03:52 AM   #921
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Imaging. EnABL, almost anything to do with a device's DDR.

dave
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Old 26th December 2012, 03:58 AM   #922
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This is perceptual. All the same, show me single change in set up that causes change in image that cannot be measured with a microphone.

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Andrew
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Old 26th December 2012, 04:04 AM   #923
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Already did. Enuff loop-the-loop.

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Old 26th December 2012, 04:20 AM   #924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywater View Post
..show me single change in set up that causes change in image that cannot be measured with a microphone.
"Can not be measured with a microphone" is not necessarily the same thing as knowing what to measure, or how, or what to look for in those measurements.
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Old 26th December 2012, 10:15 AM   #925
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Originally Posted by Barleywater View Post
Linkwitz Pluto type speaker with SEAS Prestige L16RN-SL and Peerless 830970 allows driver centers to be closer together than when on flat baffle.

Top firing woofer only sees reflection from far end of pipe, after sound travels through more than 70" of stuffing. Very little sound re-radiation. No panel resonance.
Fascinating! I know you've shown us stellar measurements, but in this case I just can't imagine how it will actually sound. Really, how does it sound?

Do we picture an approximate hemisphere of pressure radiating upwards and outwards from the woofer, some of which reaches the listener, but most hitting the ceiling and rear wall? Plus another hemisphere radiating out from the tweeter with a different proportion of its output hitting the walls, floor and ceiling?

I can't help but reproduce this quote from Rod Elliott when talking about baffle step effects:

Quote:
The absolute worst enclosure is a circular tube (cylinder), with the driver mounted in the exact centre of an end-cap. The response ripples caused by this are extreme, but with most systems this is not an issue, since this would be a very unusual shape for an enclosure. The response in a cylinder shows fluctuations in level that are quite unacceptable, and it is not a shape I would recommend to anyone.
Baffle Step Compensation

Is what he says wrong/not relevant in this situation?
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Old 26th December 2012, 10:47 AM   #926
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Quote:
Do we picture an approximate hemisphere of pressure radiating upwards and outwards from the woofer, some of which reaches the listener, but most hitting the ceiling and rear wall? Plus another hemisphere radiating out from the tweeter with a different proportion of its output hitting the walls, floor and ceiling?
What I mean is, at the crossover frequency.

Last edited by CopperTop; 26th December 2012 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 26th December 2012, 10:48 AM   #927
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It is fascinating. Linkwitz describes this speaker quite well. Speaker is completely omnidirectional at crossover, and becomes directional with tweeter.

When critically damped with stuffing, their is no ripple.

Coppertop,

It is very easy to implement this speaker, build it and listen for yourself. It seems like you have measurement microphone and are willing to use it.

I read Rod Elliot's quote before reading about Pluto and had much the same reaction. In scientific fashion I recreated Linkwitz's experiment, and it sounds fantastic.

Regards,

Andrew
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Old 26th December 2012, 11:03 AM   #928
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Originally Posted by Barleywater View Post
Speaker is completely omnidirectional at crossover, and becomes directional with tweeter.
I don't understand this fully. Doesn't the woofer begin to get a bit directional at the upper end of its range, presumably around the crossover frequency?

Quote:
In scientific fashion I recreated Linkwitz's experiment, and it sounds fantastic.
Will it do 'big sound'? Could it be scaled up in size if necessary?
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Old 26th December 2012, 11:50 AM   #929
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I like the Pluto quite a bit, I've heard Mr. Linwitz's own version. I have to say I liked it better than the Orion. IMO, the Pluto will not do "big sound", but does small/medium sound very well. Maybe with a sub or two to give it some body, it could really shine.

As Andrew says, it's easy to build, you should try it!
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Old 26th December 2012, 12:13 PM   #930
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Really, pop something together and check polar pattern. SEAS driver as mounted has very spherical response to 1kHz crossover. Listening is 90 degrees off axis, which means response in horizontal plane is identical all the way around. As mounted 2" driver is extremely omnidirectional at 1kHz.

I first implemented Pluto type speaker with much less capable Peerless 830392 in combination with NorthCreek D25 1" tweeter. DCX2496 was used with LR8 crossover at 1400Hz. With several bands of EQ and a little digital delay I suddenly had speaker that blew away any similar sized speaker I had ever heard.

On hearing them a friend who is exceptional woodworker built cabinets for pair and subwoofer:

jcrytzerwoodworking:

Click the image to open in full size.

Towers have pipe inside to constrain enclosure volume.

Jeremy is also accomplished jimbe player and instructor, and finds speaker to reproduce percussion very realistically.

Current version with DSP corrections based on measurements is reference performance.

Trade off is speaker is limited to small/moderate sized domestic scale listening spaces. Plus is that wavefront formation is coherent even up very close, and may be listened to up close as nearfield monitors.

And yes, Pluto forms more coherent wavefront than Orion at much closer distance, and subs do make it really shine.

Regards,

Andrew
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