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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 23rd November 2012, 12:08 AM   #811
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Originally Posted by mondogenerator View Post
I assume the bad passive is the 3way? One thing that put me off building a 3 way is the inversion of 1 driver, eg midrange, to align phase at xo points with a 2nd order passive network. Its bad enough in 2ways with a 2nd order network, aligning phase at Fc but sacrificing the original phase in the higher harmonics. Active for 3 ways and above makes perfect sense, but I feel its less significant in 2ways or a fullrange system. My stuck-in-the-dark-ages opinion is simply: The better a driver is, the lesser the need for EQ. Treat the cause to cure the symptom.
You know far more about this stuff than I do - I've never even contemplated building a passive crossover.

However, after experimenting with active I'm beginning to get the feeling that yes, if the drivers aren't basically right, you can't do a lot with EQ. I would guess that an anomaly in a driver's frequency response also corresponds to phase, and other (possibly uncorrectable) anomalies caused by 'natural' physical factors. I wonder if that means that your brain naturally accepts and 'hears through' it. Messing about with EQ may end up just making it sound weird, even though the results look good on a graph.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 12:26 AM   #812
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Strictly, the Tannoy R2 is a 2.5 way, not a 3 way
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Old 23rd November 2012, 12:38 AM   #813
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Originally Posted by davidsrsb View Post
Strictly, the Tannoy R2 is a 2.5 way, not a 3 way
That's very interesting - I had an idea it was the case as I rummaged about in it. So in the original configuration, the middle driver is also doing a fair bit of bass as well..? Why use this configuration rather than a true three way? Is it the difficulties in designing the crossover that mondo mentioned earlier?

Do you have any experience of this speaker yourself? I'd be interested in your listening impressions.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 12:59 AM   #814
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Originally Posted by Barleywater View Post
1/3 octave smoothing is not revealing, and graph scale is tiny. What of reverse null response of crossovers? And what forms of waveform temporal distortions are revealed with burst testing? Distortion?

Phase response of your DSP crossovers may be flat, but what does REW show for acoustic response? Phase mayhem starts with coupling capacitors, including active capacitance of speaker diaphragms along with capacitors found in coupling between amplifier stages, as well voice coil behavior.
I bow to your expertise. My crossover software is capable of correcting phase and amplitude if only I can make the right measurements. However, I have my doubts that I'm going to hear a huge difference, compared to the phase mayhem that's occurring in the room, or as I move around relative to the drivers. I was greatly admiring your graphs in an earlier post, but do you still get a square wave if you move the mic a few millimetres?
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Old 23rd November 2012, 03:13 AM   #815
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Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
Why use this configuration rather than a true three way? Is it the difficulties in designing the crossover that mondo mentioned earlier?

Do you have any experience of this speaker yourself? I'd be interested in your listening impressions.
I was reading an old HiFi World review of the similar R3 last night and you can see the LF crossover in the reponse and imedance curves. It allows the use of narrower cabinets and gives easy (excessive) baffle step compensation. The reviewer preferred to use the foam bung in the port, even though the port was broadly tuned and largely flattened the upper bass impedance peak. One thing about the R3 was that the bottom of the cabinet was not part of the true volume, being for sand loading.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 04:32 AM   #816
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Coherence once formed is maintained in direct sound, microphone may be moved significant distance, and gated response capturing direct sound reveals this.

Yes, getting good corrections requires good measurements.

Mayhem in the room is status quo for evolutionary development of hearing. Source coherence makes it easier for mind to tie reflections to it rather than having to apply more attention to assess if new source may have entered room. The more intact a reproduced sound's harmonic phase structure, the more plausible the reproduction.

Regards,

Andrew
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Old 3rd December 2012, 02:33 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Yes Falvio, I agree. For me passive have certain practical advantages. It took me many years and much listening to admit that they can be just as good (sometimes better) than active crossovers. Yes, I was an active crossover snob! After a good 12 step program I am now able to live a passive life. And you know what? I'm happy.
But nothing on your new website
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Old 3rd December 2012, 02:42 PM   #818
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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But nothing on your new website
and I thought, new website, I had not heard anything about that

and then I notice latest news ...2008
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Old 3rd December 2012, 02:45 PM   #819
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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That's what comes of having a real job and working 60-70 hours a week. When I have free time, I prefer to listen to my stereo rather than write about it.
Maybe over the holidays.
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Old 3rd December 2012, 02:56 PM   #820
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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writing about it here is better anyway
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