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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 10th November 2012, 01:17 PM   #751
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by Barleywater View Post
Loud yes, high fidelity, not in my opinion.
Based on specs, or on listening? We have a whole thread about that, but it really never concludes anything.
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Old 10th November 2012, 01:19 PM   #752
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Passives arent obsolete '78 tech,
Tell that to Sy . . .

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It's not 1978 anymore.
Some of us were already using active in 1978 (Dahlquist DP-LP1 in my case, and not my first) . . . we already knew the advantages "back then". It's certainly true that "in these days of CAD" it is easier to design a "good" passive crossover . . . one that may well be "good enough" for the particular application. It is also easier to design a far better active one. The "technology" has advanced, both in design and implementation. The reasons for and advantages of active remain . . .
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Old 10th November 2012, 01:43 PM   #753
SY is offline SY  United States
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I qualified the "easy" part several times. The question is "can you get the same results?" and I've seen no-one come up with a reason that you can't.
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Old 10th November 2012, 02:58 PM   #754
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Being that I am a user of both and a proponent of neither let me pose a hypothetical. The task is to design a midrange band pass filter either active of passive. One person takes the passive approach, another the active. Both achieve the same, identical bandpass response. So, which is superior and why?

And I am not considering insertion loss as a factor. It's not a serious issue in a home system, which is what I am considering.
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Old 10th November 2012, 03:03 PM   #755
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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John, I sure don't have the answer, unless practical matters or costs are considered.
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Old 10th November 2012, 03:05 PM   #756
SY is offline SY  United States
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Yes, you need to specify the criteria by which merit is judged as well as specifics for the implementation.

Like you, I use both, depending on what's the straightest route to a particular target.
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Old 10th November 2012, 03:21 PM   #757
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So, which is superior and why?
The guy using active. He saved himself a whole bunch of hours for other things, like listening.
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Yes, you need to specify the criteria by which merit is judged as well as specifics for the implementation.
See above.
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Like you, I use both, depending on what's the straightest route to a particular target.
Active.
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Old 10th November 2012, 03:41 PM   #758
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
The task is to design a midrange band pass filter either active of passive. One person takes the passive approach, another the active. Both achieve the same, identical bandpass response. So, which is superior and why?
It depends, of course, on context.

Are there going to be correponding high-pass and low-pass filters to go with it? What kind of slopes are you looking at? Is it a well behaved driver (at least within the passband)? Will the driver behave better with "pure" voltage source or "pure" current source? Do you need time alignment with other drivers? Are there other potential "phase" issues?

If bandpass is your only goal and there is a lot of out-of-band signal then it will reduce amplifier load (and potentially increase amplifier linearity and reduce amplifier cost) to kill the out of band signal before the amp (this does not, of course, necessarily require an "active" filter . . . you could place a "'passive" line level filter before the amp).

And all the speculation is based on the presumption, not necessarily true as a practical matter in the real world, that you can "achieve the same, identical bandpass response". As you well know it is easy to create filters using something like the UE that cannot be duplicated with any practically buildable passive design . . .
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Old 10th November 2012, 03:52 PM   #759
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I think if you took john k's task literally, with responses of each method EQ'ed close, an A/B would reveal no audible differences. Cost and time would be the prevailing factor.
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Old 10th November 2012, 04:01 PM   #760
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...................... (this does not, of course, necessarily require an "active" filter . . . you could place a "'passive" line level filter before the amp). . . .
a passive line level filter before an amplifier feeding a bass unit can either be combined with the passive filtering for the bass driver to give the correct acoustic output or set to one or two octaves higher such that it can be disregarded for it's effect on acoustic output.

Consider a 3kHz crossed passive 2way.
The line level low pass passive can be 3kHz or 6 to 12kHz.
How much signal can a 6dB/octave remove from the signal being handled by the bass/mid amplifier?

When considering a high pass passive for the treble amplifier then some advantage can probably be had, but two octaves below 3kHz means F-3dB @ ~750Hz and F-9dB (~1/3rd of signal level) @ ~370Hz. Not a lot of attenuation of the unwanted signal.
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