Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Active vrs passive
Active vrs passive
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd October 2012, 05:00 PM   #441
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
Pano's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW Florida
Active vrs passive
Originally Posted by thoriated View Post
There are actually distortion advantages for many drivers to be driven from a higher than zero ohm impedance, such as reductions in flux modulation distortion and thermal compression.
Well I certainly don't like running compression drivers straight from the amp, they don't sound good. A series resistor, or a resistive divider works well. SOme folks like a transformer or autoformer better.
Take the Speaker Voltage Test!
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 05:11 PM   #442
Drewan77 is offline Drewan77  England
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
The DEQX aligns everything from measurement using the amp/speaker combination for each driver/crossover set, so anything added/subtracted by each amp is cancelled by the calibration. Yes I agree that theoretically A/D/A shouldn't sound as transparent but it really does to me. I have listened critically to Anthony Gallo's, Top end B&W Nautilus and Wilson Watt/Puppy's in great systems but I honestly think what I have now sounds more natural. Unbelievable I know but it has to be the box of tricks doing this. I have spent decades trying to find sound as good as the best live events and I'm closer now to that than I have ever heard. Of course I realise that live music isn't always regarded as HI-Fi but I want - punch in the stomach, almost zero audible distortion and a sense of the real musical performance in front of me. I now have that, albeit comparing to what I like in a mic'd, amp'd venue. Even so, a solo voice and especially an acoustic guitar or piano sounds just like the real thing in my room. Solo Drums have absolutely mind blowing attack, you hear the skins themselves being struck in a sort of electrostatic, transparent way. I can't find words to describe it but It's almost EXACTLY as in a great venue. That's why I swore when I first got the thing 'tuned in'
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 05:20 PM   #443
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
.....don't the big Tannoys have a "Drivers only" connection in the back? One can use their built in or your own external crossover.
not the old ones upto 1979 or so when production moved to Coatbridge.
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 05:39 PM   #444
thoriated is offline thoriated  United States
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: flyover country
I have a HT system with 24 bit processing that sounds very good with music - it's a bit more neutral spectrally than my all tube two channel HQ audio system - since the Onkyo 9.1 processor does spectral room convolution and delay compensation individually for each channel at the listening position during setup, but it's really not in the same league as far as ultimate soundfield, smoothness, imaging and detail as the all tube system, although the HT system is quite good in each of these regards, IMO. In fact, I tend to be struck how in many ways the two very different systems with different sourcing sonically resemble each other overall.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 07:36 PM   #445
Jack Caldwell is offline Jack Caldwell  United States
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfield, IA
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
I use a Berhinger DEQ in front of the amp to shape the response in my listening room. It makes a big difference, in a good way. Time and phase I used to do in the DSP crossover, but now do with driver position and passive crossover. Both work, and are essential for great results.
My in room response generally follows the B&K listening curve, I.E. a gently falling response from ~400Hz to 20Khz. -6dB at the top end. My tweeters conk out about 17K, but that's the general curve.
Hey Pano, interesting comment.

I actually use BOTH a deqx AND a Behringer DEQ2496 on my larger system (the H3 refd in my website). I use the deqx outdoors to get the best "naked, near anechoic" speaker performance. But when used in a room, I find the DEQX "single point in space" tuning is too restrictive, so I then associate the DEQ to correct for the average hemispherical in-room response.
Also, the 64 slot memory function on the DEQ makes it easy to incorporate what i politely call CRC or "commercial recording compensation" with varying degrees of corrections. It's almost mandatory if you like rock and pop from the 70's and 80's (e.g. Allman Bros 1st album is almost unlistenable without some major re-eq compensation - too bad 'cause it's smokin good music!) Press memory button on the deq, select which CRC you want, and.... voila! it becomes listenable and.... very , very enjoyable!

In practice, like you, I have found it necessary to adopt the B&K listening curve... I'm of the opinion that this is due to the way most music is recorded, when I record using a near binaural set-up with a modded Jecklin type disc and calibration mics, the "flat" setting generated by the deqx seems better.

Another comment I might make about the active vs passive debate is that when we are going "active" we have very little "high def, high transparency" equipment to choose from. I often use a Behringer DCX2496 for my clients systems, but it needs some serious modding to sound transparent. And the DEQX has pretty good built-in dacs, but even so it can sound much better with outboard dacs such as the Antelope Zodiac Gold (to name just one I've tried and really liked)

IMO, if we as DIYers and semi-pros (or even pro-pros) had more transparent active crossovers with more options and flexibility, it would be no contest in favor of active.
As it is, when I listen to my FAST type open baffle full-range, driven with a series crossover (yes MiiB, I hear you nodding your head!), and using a single amp driven by a modded DEQ2496, the transparency of this system gives any top end system (including my own) some very serious competition.

I would love to see stuff like the Behringer dcx or Mini-DSP with truly transparent dacs or digital outs at similar prices to the dcx2496... it would make integration with active crossovers much more palatable to those who don't want to have to mod their gear just to get it good enough for rock'n roll.

All of which goes to say that IMO we need to develop some much more transparent active crossover/eq systems before we can convincingly demonstrate how much better active can be. As it stands, unless you're willing to spend big bucks on a deqx with digital outs AND THEN ADD two high quality external dacs, it's pretty hard to get top notch transparency.

So I guess I'm siding with Pano and MiiB on this argument... UNLESS we're using the deq + DEQX + really good external dacs.
Commercial Site: www.HologramAcoustics.com

Last edited by Jack Caldwell; 23rd October 2012 at 07:57 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 10:44 PM   #446
puppet is offline puppet  United States
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The Dells, WI
"It's my breakfast, so I'd like my eggs scrambled please."
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 10:48 PM   #447
Wavebourn is offline Wavebourn  United States
Designer & Technologist
diyAudio Member
Wavebourn's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Active vrs passive
I like Audyssey. Currently it satisfies all my needs for home listenings and movie watchings.
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 11:14 PM   #448
James Lehman is offline James Lehman  United States
diyAudio Member
James Lehman's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Akron, Ohio USA
Active vrs passive
Holy crap! This thread goes on and on and on.........

No one has ever made any conclusive statement as to how passive / one amp is better than active multi-amp.

Because it is NOT TRUE.

Grow up. Get over it. Technology is not on your side.

For each infinitesimal arrangement that works its bizarre magic in the passive domain, there are an infinite number of ways to obliterate that into complete insignificance in the active domain.

Like it has been said before. The only argument to be made for passive / single amp is that almost all of the commercially available stuff is made to match this market.

THAT'S IT. That is all you have going for you!

Any system that is design to be active / multi amp from the ground up has the potential to BLOW AWAY a single amp passive system.

End of story.

  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 11:16 PM   #449
SY is offline SY  United States
On Hiatus
SY's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Active vrs passive
Originally Posted by James Lehman View Post
No one has ever made any conclusive statement as to how passive / one amp is better than active multi-amp.
Probably because it isn't. It's just a different way to hit a target which may or may not be more convenient to do in a given situation. I really don't understand the absolutist position.
"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2012, 11:21 PM   #450
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
diyAudio Moderator
planet10's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Active vrs passive
Originally Posted by James Lehman View Post
No one has ever made any conclusive statement as to how passive / one amp is better than active multi-amp.
I have seen quite a few -- you have just ignored them because a/ they aren't in your world view or b/ you did not give enuff thot or have enuff understanding to get them. Since which is best is context sensitive there will never be a conclusive one is better than the other.

community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote


Active vrs passiveHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Active or Passive bjackson Multi-Way 30 4th April 2005 10:49 PM
Passive into active MethMan Multi-Way 8 12th January 2005 04:58 PM
Active of passive audiobomber Multi-Way 9 31st July 2004 02:31 AM
dB loss by using passive crossovers? Active vs Passive and 1st vs 4th order Hybrid fourdoor Multi-Way 3 11th July 2004 09:16 PM

New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:42 PM.

Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2017 diyAudio