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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:13 AM   #421
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I'm with tinitus, I think that the issue is with semantics. I regard the term active or passive when describing a speaker to be referring to the crossover used with that speaker.


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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:18 AM   #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
I don't agree, but it's an entirely untapped market. Speakers could be sold with a few extra 4mm sockets and link pieces on the back, allowing the user to select the drivers-only option.
I quite agree - having to buy a speaker with an internal passive XO already incorporated is about as much fun as having to buy a PC with Windows already installed. The suggested schematic though for the manufacturer recommended XO should be supplied, with full component specs and the voltage transfer functions.

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Then it would be all systems go for the industry to sell us two or three times as many amplifiers and cables as they do now, plus a field day for the magazines mixing and matching amps, active crossover boxes, line level crossovers, passive crossovers, software - the speakers could come with ready-made cal files for digital crossovers. A new industry in Class A tweeter amps would be born. Mixing solid state and valves between drivers would be possible. The 'high end' would encourage the use of six or eight monoblock amps.
I forsee DACs which can use downloaded coefficients to generate FRs matched to particular drive units in particular speakers. DIYing your own activation of a speaker would certainly be great for a spectrum of manufacturers.

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It would be completely different from standard 'active speakers': a tweaker's paradise.
Yes no longer the active speaker as a 'black box' - open source actives WTG
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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:20 AM   #423
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CopperTop you are assuming that the average person buying speakers will have the knowledge and inclination to actually set up an active crossover that will give them a good sound! Anyone with that Inclination would probably end up diying the whole thing

There are products already that do cater for this type of scenario though, for example the DSPre1 from holm accoustics, however I think it would be a pretty niche market.

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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:22 AM   #424
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Quote:
Speakers could be sold with a few extra 4mm sockets and link pieces on the back, allowing the user to select the drivers-only option.
Linn has been doing that since the 70s.

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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:24 AM   #425
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that is just matter of time

but yeah, I think that goes more in the direction of Linn, B&O, Bose, etc
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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:24 AM   #426
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I've seen tons of speakers sold as active, just because they had build in amp's. But they filter was still passive.
I know that definitions can play tricks on most people and that it can help to sell more stuff to people who dont do their homework.
I have a fully active multiway system. And it takes a spdif signal, splits it into 8 channels, 4 for each sider (left right). I can ofcourse choose to use fx only 3 channels pr side, depending on the speaker I want to use. Then i run balanced cables to my multichannel amps, that are positioned next to each speaker. Her I have speak-on, like in pro-audio to connect the amp easyly to the speaker. The pre-amp, has both DAC, filter and digital contolled analog volume build in. All 8 channels can be adjusted individually, so that a tweeter with high sensitivity, easily can be leveled with a midrange, all without "loosing bits" in the digital domain. When level is set for all channels, then the volumecontrol used with remote, is ofcourse af mastervolume, that controls all 8 at same time.
I encountered no problems, as soon as I learned to measure and ajust parametres correctly.
First I made a standard pair of Dali evidence 870 active with this system. It was ALOT better than the standard edition. But I refitted the passive filter and sold them, cause the drivers and cabinet construction did not give me af chance to go far enough in the high end direction I wanted.
I have since build two different DIY speakers. first with SS 9900, Accuton T8 5" midrange, 8545 for midbas, and one 12" XXLS 830952 for sub.
Then I build the ones I have now. Morel Supreme, Accuton T8 5" midrange, 3x18W8545 for midbas, and 2x12" XXLS 830952 for subs, next to each speaker.

My experience, after listening to Wilson audio sophia, Dynaudio confidence, Peak consult Kepheus Ultimatum, B&W 800 series, and tons of other very expensive speakers, with equally expensive amps, costing around 18.000$ for the power amp alone. Is that I come close enough here at home with good standard drivers, simple and well build class B amps, well constructed cabinets and som simple room acoustics, and of course a well tempered DSP x-over.
I use a cheap Behringe ECM8000 microfone, and it gives me a nice view of the most critical places in the frequency range. Like the one between midrange and tweeter, that is very important for good music reproduction. Then it is not that essential that the microfone is not perfect in the range over 8K hz or below 2-300. Speakers are measured aprox 1 meter away, straight on the baffle. I then measure in the listening spot, to correct the bass according to the room.
No matter what type of system you use, It is important to adjust filter, speaker placement and room acoustics correctly to make it all sum up. Or else you are just guessing . And we all know how easy the mind and ears are to be deceived - take for example cable test's.
Feel free to ask. I'm just a DIY, that like to form my own opinion, from what I experience.

Last edited by Tordenguden; 23rd October 2012 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:26 AM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
CopperTop you are assuming that the average person buying speakers will have the knowledge and inclination to actually set up an active crossover that will give them a good sound! Anyone with that Inclination would probably end up diying the whole thing
No, that's not the market I was thinking of. Think more 'Ikea' style self-assembly or packet cake mixes. Those aren't really niche at all but quite possibly they did start out that way.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:28 AM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Linn has been doing that since the 70s.

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Old 23rd October 2012, 09:43 AM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tordenguden View Post
Or these:
might help to tell why you want us to look at that speaker, instead of just posting link, please
tho I do see why, its not really that obvious
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Old 23rd October 2012, 11:25 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Then they are active speakers.

Honestly, I don't like this terminology, even if it is domestic. It is confusing, artificial. Call me anti-patriot, but I prefer international terminology accepted by the outside of the forum world.
To me 'active' means line level xover and one amp per driver.
The amps can be either built into the box which is usual with smaller models or in a rack somewhere else which is usual with larger models.
For example ATC make an all active range of monitors. On the models up to the SCM150 the amps are onboard while with the big SCM200 and 300 the amps are outboard.


Just to complicate things further PMC make something they call 'activated'. These use passive high level crossovers with a single onboard amp.
They also make active ones with line level crossover and one amp per driver.
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