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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 22nd October 2012, 12:29 AM   #351
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This one is absolutely passive and "natural". I would say, Organic.

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Old 22nd October 2012, 12:32 AM   #352
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...this one is active, my concrete horn subwoofer under the floor. Though, it's passive prototype was pictured on my previous message.
But this "active" thingy sounds much more natural than that "passive" and organic one.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 01:21 AM   #353
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Audio reproduction is a well designed illusion!

It is capable of creating audio phenomena that could not exist any other way.

Multi-track recordings by a solo artist is only one very simple example.

BTW I have a Victrola as well. Pretty amazing stuff.

Mine came from my great aunt. It was built in 1923 and came with a nice collection of records from about 1905 and on...

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Old 22nd October 2012, 01:25 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by MiiB View Post
But that does not mean that the driver does not change sound character under different amplitudes. Its this change of character that needs to be dissipated/reflected into the other drivers in the system to maintain the coherence. so my immediate speculative assumption is that current drive may better it but not solve it.
I have yet to get my speaker loud enough for long enough that they change sound character audibly.

I've got them loud enough that things fall of of my shelves and verbal communication is all but impossible though.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 04:01 AM   #355
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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Ok I'am done...
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Old 22nd October 2012, 05:26 AM   #356
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hello wavebourn

first of all i did not imply anything of the sort you so liberally characterize. i simply meant that you were off topic and probably biased. to the point now. my point was that manufacturers of tube amps, almost invariably, provide their output transformers with taps for different speaker loads. maximum power transfer is the reason. also, zobel networks were devised to counteract for the varying impedance of the speaker and make it appear as a constant resistive load as much as possible. there is a reason for that too, whether the zobel is in the crossover or at the output of the amp. speaker impedances vary greatly and amp design is affected.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 06:00 AM   #357
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hello wavebourn

first of all i did not imply anything of the sort you so liberally characterize. i simply meant that you were off topic and probably biased. to the point now. my point was that manufacturers of tube amps, almost invariably, provide their output transformers with taps for different speaker loads. maximum power transfer is the reason. also, zobel networks were devised to counteract for the varying impedance of the speaker and make it appear as a constant resistive load as much as possible. there is a reason for that too, whether the zobel is in the crossover or at the output of the amp. speaker impedances vary greatly and amp design is affected.
Maximum power transfer between output stage and Zobel network. No more questions, thank you Sir! You enlightened me finally!
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Old 22nd October 2012, 06:21 AM   #358
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No, you got it wrong again. maximum power transfer does not take place between the zobel and the output stage. anyway, i suggest we discontinue this pointless argument. there is no point arguing over elementary theory. the textbooks are out there available to anyone interested.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 09:23 AM   #359
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Show me frequency response with a driver's leads reversed to generate null at crossover point for one of your speakers.

Here is how one of my two way speaker's measurements look
[...]
Andrew,
Impressive system you have there, do you use Acourate for XO and EQ or a similar software?

------:------

Assuming that we have locked phase between woofer and tweeter at XO the nulling test (one driver inverted) should be an indicator of the drifting parameters Michael brought into the game. Measuring the notch must show it jumping around vs test level when either mag or phase of any driver has changed. With periodic noise I think this should be doable, allowing the drivers to settle a bit at higher input powers. With two-channel test setup and if the SW can do it, even music could be used when it is broadband and has dense spectra around XO freq.

That'll be an interesting thing to do especially when comparing Michaels (or any) series XO with an standard (2 voltage amps) active emulation of the same transfer functions (with LSPcad this is done very easily).
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Old 22nd October 2012, 09:27 AM   #360
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You can't do this with passive crossovers, and you can't do this with analog active crossovers, but once the understanding and methodology is in place, it takes less than an hour to measure, create filters, and test.
Andrew

I think you are doing precisely the stuff I am aiming to do: measuring impulse response of each individual driver and thence deconvolving the incoming signal with that response (simply pre-overlaid onto each crossover filter)..?

Are you making the measurements in an anechoic chamber, or is it a whole room correction?
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