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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 21st October 2012, 11:02 PM   #341
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiB View Post
Dave.... You can't make series crossovers with domes or any mass loaded tweeters. Ribbons and planars does not have low freq resonance and will work perfectly in serial crossovers

Other tweeters will get too loaded at their resonance and thus get destroyed.
Michael
I read somewhere that you use no low pass components on the mid's in some of your Raidho designs. True?
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Old 21st October 2012, 11:03 PM   #342
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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series XO's relies on really good drivers..
Im still searching

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If you don't have the ingredients you can't cook anything worth eating.
depends on what you expect to get
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Old 21st October 2012, 11:12 PM   #343
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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Remlab.. no that is not true... I use coils, but I aim to take the as much inductance out of my mid drivers as possible, to get the desired roll of I add inductance in series.
Inductance in drivers is a major driver of dynamic unlinearity and back EMF.
Driver-inductance is not desired, but kind of hard to avoid, with iron and coil near each other.

Tinitus.... why do you think we designed them ourselves..???
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Old 21st October 2012, 11:24 PM   #344
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by MiiB View Post
Tinitus.... why do you think we designed them ourselves..???
I don't know, to make money I guess, or at least I hope you do

I don't know your driver
maybe it's a small planar design, right ?
isnt a planar a planar, and ribbons are ribbons
and works by their 'nature' ?
can they be that different at all ?
how different can they be ?

anyway, in the end, no driver is better than the last man who handles it
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Old 21st October 2012, 11:33 PM   #345
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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haha.. If I wanted to make money I surely would have stayed in other business areas...

We make two types of drivers, one is a light planar tweeter and the others are ceramic coned mid/woofers. /lets not make this a story about drivers, but stay on the course of what passive can do that active Can't do...
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Old 21st October 2012, 11:46 PM   #346
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
I don't know, to make money I guess, or at least I hope you do

I don't know your driver
maybe it's a small planar design, right ?
isnt a planar a planar, and ribbons are ribbons
and works by their 'nature' ?
can they be that different at all ?
how different can they be ?

anyway, in the end, no driver is better than the last man who handles it
http://hifi-unlimited.blogspot.com/2...cle-audio.html

Blink High End
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Last edited by Remlab; 21st October 2012 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 21st October 2012, 11:50 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by MiiB View Post
We at Raidho have always used serial (current diversion) X-overs. exactly for that reason. when the two drivers share current in the crossover region they are locked together and can't drift apart.

The dynamic changes particular in the mid/bas generates back emf. some of this generated current bleeds into the tweeter and alters the character to fit that of the mid/base. This is in my book vital to the coherence of the system.

Now I know this is not trivial or basic and might take some thinking to understand. For most people making speakers and X-overs is how to target good linearity...with smooth even SPL.... But SPL is NOT SPL.. it's a vector sum of all contributions some in phase and some out of phase...To understand this is an absolute key. Altering the phase content of a given SPL dynamically by tying the drivers together in that vital frequency band is of great importance...and that you can never do actively.
Whole point of crossover is to split current seen by two drivers.

Show me frequency response with a driver's leads reversed to generate null at crossover point for one of your speakers.

Here is how one of my two way speaker's measurements look:

This is display of independent woofer and tweeter raw response measurements, mounted:

Click the image to open in full size.

Based on responses, filters for EQ and crossover are made, and woofer and tweeter now measure as:

Click the image to open in full size.

This is how speaker measures with both drivers running:

Click the image to open in full size.

And this is how the speaker response looks when one of the drivers has leads reversed:

Click the image to open in full size.

This is what vector sums are about.

Here is picture of response recording of speaker playing 1kHz square wave:

Click the image to open in full size.

And here is picture of response recording of speaker playing 66Hz square wave:

Click the image to open in full size.

Here is percussion of drum being struck. It is about 94ms of recording from CD. Top track is recording on CD, lower track is recording of speaker playing CD:

Click the image to open in full size.

This is 10ms zoom from above:

Click the image to open in full size.

You can't do this with passive crossovers, and you can't do this with analog active crossovers, but once the understanding and methodology is in place, it takes less than an hour to measure, create filters, and test.

Regards,

Andrew
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Old 21st October 2012, 11:57 PM   #348
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You still haven't successfully managed to explain what passive can do that active cannot. You've managed to point out one feature of a series crossover, but have yet to really explain why this so called 'current sharing' is something that is actually beneficial. Or rather from your explanations it appears that this current sharing is the bit that makes the magic happen and is why series is better then anything else, active or otherwise.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 12:20 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by demeterart View Post
hello Wavebourn

it is quite clear that you have no idea what my point was. if you care please read it again otherwise forget about it.
Can you explain your point please to us dumbies? Before that I assume that you confuse means with targets.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 12:22 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by MiiB View Post
No such thing as the perfect speaker, but you can weight and select your compromises so what it brings out is so natural that it may fool you to believe it's the real deal.
There is NOTHING "natural" about audio reproduction!

It is absolutely synthetic in every aspect!

That's the whole point!

James.

Last edited by James Lehman; 22nd October 2012 at 12:25 AM.
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