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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 21st October 2012, 08:54 PM   #321
Boscoe is offline Boscoe  United Kingdom
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I think the people still into passive use the fact the audio industry still massively go for passive. But the audio industry is the biggest pile of **** rip off companies going. They only use passive because its easier as the only practical way to do active is all in one box solution, amps in speakers etc. Because separates are just that separate all the dealers can make more money as well as the manufacturers selling all these different magic boxes, look at naim for example and they completely useless and flawed idea of external PSUs.

The punters are none the wiser, because its possible to convince someone they are hearing something they are not and because sound is so subjective they can get away with it. The punters are also so stupid most of the time they will trust the people that are selling them the pointless stuff they are being sold and think they are being helped!

The reason this forum doesn't like active is the same reason people still like tubes too, if your brought up with the way something sounds that's what you gonna like. Everyone has learnt what they think things should sound like on passives so actives sound wrong when in fact they are the correct ones.

The entire hifi industry is utter rubbish and a farce and unfortunately this gets filtered down a little and finds its way making impressions in the DIY community.

Don't be scared of change embrace better things! You know you want to!

What a post eh?
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:00 PM   #322
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boscoe View Post

The reason this forum doesn't like active is the same reason people still like tubes too......
what... oh lord, nothing could be more wrong
you dont get around much my friend

but why do some sound so angry, or offended ? I don't see any reason to say those things like that, just because some people have different opinions

besides, most tube guys are probably over at full range forum if you want to talk to them
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:02 PM   #323
Boscoe is offline Boscoe  United Kingdom
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I said its off my chest and I think reason I don't bother with tubes is because I do get out!

Oh and for me they are pointless!
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:03 PM   #324
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by James Lehman View Post
Some of you who hang on to the notion that a single amp and a passive crossover is the only way to go are in love with your amp!
This is what is commonly known as a "Straw Man Argument." I haven't seen anyone in this thread proclaiming "a single amp and a passive crossover is the only way to go". (Did I miss it?) Most of the arguments I've read here in support of passive crossovers have come from those who use both active and passive and understand how each works, and how to design either.

So far, no one has "proven" either to be superior for Hi-Fi use. The opening post states that active is superior, but offers no proof.
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:06 PM   #325
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by Boscoe View Post
The reason this forum doesn't like active is the same reason people still like tubes too, if your brought up with the way something sounds that's what you gonna like.
That would go for bad solid state amps, too - you know.

Anyway, how can you say this forum doesn't like active? Where did that idea come from?
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:07 PM   #326
MiiB is online now MiiB  Denmark
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You may be right about current drive, I have not tried that in practice. but current would for sure lock the drivers more firmly in terms of local generated back currents, but weather it alter the dynamic changes in character on the individual driver with amplitude is beyond my experience. the obvious would be that the current is locked and back current is integrated into the driving current in an additive process,

But that does not mean that the driver does not change sound character under different amplitudes. Its this change of character that needs to be dissipated/reflected into the other drivers in the system to maintain the coherence. so my immediate speculative assumption is that current drive may better it but not solve it.

Mind you that my knowledge on voltage drive is a result of more than 10 years working professionally with this..
I suspect to gain similar knowledge about speaker drivers behaviour under current-drive would take some years too.. so I'am out on the ice here...
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:19 PM   #327
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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If so, it should be mensurable either at the speaker terminals and/or acoustically. Right?
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:23 PM   #328
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We at Raidho have always used serial (current diversion) X-overs. exactly for that reason. when the two drivers share current in the crossover region they are locked together and can't drift apart.

The dynamic changes particular in the mid/bas generates back emf. some of this generated current bleeds into the tweeter and alters the character to fit that of the mid/base. This is in my book vital to the coherence of the system.

Now I know this is not trivial or basic and might take some thinking to understand. For most people making speakers and X-overs is how to target good linearity...with smooth even SPL.... But SPL is NOT SPL.. it's a vector sum of all contributions some in phase and some out of phase...To understand this is an absolute key. Altering the phase content of a given SPL dynamically by tying the drivers together in that vital frequency band is of great importance...and that you can never do actively.
You'll have to forgive me, because I'm still not getting this.

A capacitor, or an inductor, will always introduce a frequency-dependent phase shift into the signal.
This being the case, how, pray tell, are the drivers prevented from "drifting apart"?

... and I can't understand why you think feeding the back EMF of the woofer into the tweeter could possibly be a good thing - surely distortion from the tweeter would increase?

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Old 21st October 2012, 09:28 PM   #329
MiiB is online now MiiB  Denmark
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Chris different filter topology... study serial crossovers and you'll understand.
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:39 PM   #330
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Series vs. Parallel Crossover Networks

The low pass and high pass sections still have a phase difference that varies with frequency.

How, then, does that mean the drivers are "tied together"?
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