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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 16th October 2012, 02:44 PM   #11
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Passive crossovers have NO PROBLEMS with bass response or damping factor.
not that simple either

but I will take the opportunity to say I think of passive crossovers as a blessing
meaning that most of what we know about speaker design today would not have been possible without
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Old 16th October 2012, 03:03 PM   #12
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I think it IS that simple, tinitus.

The bass coil in a passive crossover is not the culprit with sloppy bass. Far more to do with room acoustics, box design and Q and room damping. Room gain is an enormous factor. You really won't get good bass with a big speaker in a small lively room. It's gonna BOOM!

Why does no-one ever GET IT with Steen Duelund's simple thought model?

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Old 16th October 2012, 03:12 PM   #13
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damping factor and "sloppy bass" has nothing to do with "distortion" from passive components since, by definition, linear and time-invariant systems, such as those by passive devices can NOT introduce distortion on sinewaves but only phase delay and attenuation.
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Old 16th October 2012, 03:54 PM   #14
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by system7 View Post
I think it IS that simple, tinitus.
The bass coil in a passive crossover is not the culprit with sloppy bass.

Why does no-one ever GET IT with Steen Duelund's simple thought model?
Steen Duelund was indeed exstremely enthusiastic, and very bright
but not always right

but since you dont know it all yet back to building speakers

btw, now you mention Steen Duelund
he spent many years trying to devellop better crossover components, and drivers
because he believed it would be impossible to build his dream speakers with what was available
unfortunately a fatal decision
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Old 16th October 2012, 05:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
I think it IS that simple, tinitus.

The bass coil in a passive crossover is not the culprit with sloppy bass. Far more to do with room acoustics, box design and Q and room damping. Room gain is an enormous factor. You really won't get good bass with a big speaker in a small lively room. It's gonna BOOM!
Then please explain the much tighter and more detailed bass I got when I replaced the passive xover on my speakers with an active one. Same room, same placement, same box, same amp.
Admittedly the active xover has 24dB L-R slopes as opposed to the 12dB original but most of the audible difference is well below the unchanged 1.2k xover point.
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Old 16th October 2012, 06:07 PM   #16
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Then please explain the much tighter and more detailed bass I got when I replaced the passive xover on my speakers with an active one. Same room, same placement, same box, same amp.
Same listener with the same brain. Your perceptual results are not necessarily reality. Did something change? - probably. Was it an improvement? - maybe yes, maybe no. Did it sound better to you? Sounds like it did. Could the two have been made to be equivalent matching either one? Yes.

Passive, active, done correctly they are indistinguishable. Done wrong and both can be a disaster. Active excels sometimes, but until recently active was just too expensive for anything but DIY. These days, DSP is so cheap that it makes more sense, but its still more expensive (two amps versus one.)
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Old 16th October 2012, 06:39 PM   #17
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I would possibly agree if it weren't for my friend who noticed the change almost immediately without knowing anything about the change I made.

It took him about 5 minutes to notice any change after I swapped op amps in my crossover at later time.
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Old 16th October 2012, 06:52 PM   #18
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Did it sound better to you? Sounds like it did.
only mentioned that bass was improved

but it could just as well be amp related
or the box isnt optimal
lots of other things could have influence

but I suppose active will most likely give some advantage if it replaces a poorly designed passive crossover
and only if its a well designed speaker, as such
if the whole speaker is sick, active wont cure it
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Old 16th October 2012, 07:08 PM   #19
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Couldn't hear much difference in the treble, the amp in question is an MC2 Audio MC450.
The amp for the treble is now an MC2 Audio T500.

As I said box, room, placement and xover point remained identical.
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Old 16th October 2012, 08:05 PM   #20
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Well there will be a small amount of bass change due to the inductors series resistance.
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