Hi All!!!
i live in israel and therefore i have a problem buying drivers from manufacturers other the morel.
we have in israel a 45% tax on imported drivers, since my budget is slightly limited (250-400$ for drivers) - i have decided morel will certainly give me the best price\quality ratio.
my wish is to build a pair of front floor-standing speakers that will deliver good bass senesation and off course - like us all, reproduce the sound as best as possible , my favorite type of music is jazz and blues.
i'm using cucurrentlya pioneer vsvsx0 rereceivero drive two 3-way front speakers i build a few years ago
and an ononkyoxtx50 in addition to power two more 8" mid bass in a different cabinet.
i need help deciding which drivers to work with, diameter, cabinet size, etc...
each speaker may be around 13" wide,
4 feet tall, 18" deep at max.
(this won't be my first project, but it will be my first serios one)
thanks with advance!
i live in israel and therefore i have a problem buying drivers from manufacturers other the morel.
we have in israel a 45% tax on imported drivers, since my budget is slightly limited (250-400$ for drivers) - i have decided morel will certainly give me the best price\quality ratio.
my wish is to build a pair of front floor-standing speakers that will deliver good bass senesation and off course - like us all, reproduce the sound as best as possible , my favorite type of music is jazz and blues.
i'm using cucurrentlya pioneer vsvsx0 rereceivero drive two 3-way front speakers i build a few years ago
and an ononkyoxtx50 in addition to power two more 8" mid bass in a different cabinet.
i need help deciding which drivers to work with, diameter, cabinet size, etc...
each speaker may be around 13" wide,
4 feet tall, 18" deep at max.
(this won't be my first project, but it will be my first serios one)
thanks with advance!
depends on your definition I guess
Hi GM,
Would this qualify as a sub? http://www.moreleurope.com/products/H 10.pdf
Some pretty interesting claims on the spec sheet, funny that they don't actually have a FR curve though since most drivers on this site do.......
Regards,
Tony.
Hi GM,
Would this qualify as a sub? http://www.moreleurope.com/products/H 10.pdf
Some pretty interesting claims on the spec sheet, funny that they don't actually have a FR curve though since most drivers on this site do.......
Regards,
Tony.
Important to say that i ment morel europe and NOT morel usa. (as also found in the madisound catalog)
What about the mw1075?
as i understand it's good only for sealed boxes, which might be okay, i don't quite have a fixed idea about what i need.
the mw1077 is good also for vented boxes, but... it's abit higher then my humble budget.
will it be reasonable to combine a 2-way system with the mw1077?
mw1077 - in a 190 liter vented box will go down as ~25Hz F3, as shown on specs.
this might be what i'm looking for.
Joe.
What about the mw1075?
as i understand it's good only for sealed boxes, which might be okay, i don't quite have a fixed idea about what i need.
the mw1077 is good also for vented boxes, but... it's abit higher then my humble budget.
will it be reasonable to combine a 2-way system with the mw1077?
mw1077 - in a 190 liter vented box will go down as ~25Hz F3, as shown on specs.
this might be what i'm looking for.
Joe.
Morel TLines
Hello JA
IPL Acoustics have an excellant TL, using the " 144 ", 5.25in driver, I built a pair a few years ago and they are superb. My daughter is using them in her system. If you look at www.audiokit.it, they show three Morel TL's, with dimensions and crossovers, they may be suitable !! Also, if go to Google or the others, and type in Morel transmission lines or variations of it, all sorts of things pop up. Hope that helps a bit
Roy
Hello JA
IPL Acoustics have an excellant TL, using the " 144 ", 5.25in driver, I built a pair a few years ago and they are superb. My daughter is using them in her system. If you look at www.audiokit.it, they show three Morel TL's, with dimensions and crossovers, they may be suitable !! Also, if go to Google or the others, and type in Morel transmission lines or variations of it, all sorts of things pop up. Hope that helps a bit
Roy
Dear Roy and Stee.
i thank you for your advise.
i did look it up and it does seem very cool.
however, mostly i listen to jazz/blues music,
therefore i need a woofer about 9-10" big to produce the 30-40Hz.
this cant be done in a closed box (as i suspect)
the complication of the transmission line as i understand, is great.
i'm trying to find out if morel speakers (the woofers) are appropriate for this purpose.
i hope there is something i skipped, i did search the web to find a descent design to sosomethingf this kind.
Joe.
i thank you for your advise.
i did look it up and it does seem very cool.
however, mostly i listen to jazz/blues music,
therefore i need a woofer about 9-10" big to produce the 30-40Hz.
this cant be done in a closed box (as i suspect)
the complication of the transmission line as i understand, is great.
i'm trying to find out if morel speakers (the woofers) are appropriate for this purpose.
i hope there is something i skipped, i did search the web to find a descent design to sosomethingf this kind.
Joe.
I did find this:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/drivers/B139_substitutes.html
the morel woffers might be a substitute for the kef driver in this design:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/jakob/index.html
what about the rest of the drivers?
will it still work?
Joe.
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/drivers/B139_substitutes.html
the morel woffers might be a substitute for the kef driver in this design:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/jakob/index.html
what about the rest of the drivers?
will it still work?
Joe.
OK, I screwed up. 
Later on I realized I had the isobaric field turned on, and combined with the low Vas of the USA Morels, I 'saw' ~ what I expected to see WRT sims.
I'm surprised that Morel would have two sets of driver specs, but there's quite a difference in some cases so used the Morel Europe specs for the following designs. Of course if the specs are off > ~10%, tuning becomes a tedious affair without measuring gear.
Don't have a clue about pricing, so some of these may be budget breakers.
All dims are inside.
Designs are 'max flat', so if near a wall or corner, the vent will need to be longer to lower tuning, or some damping can be applied to the vent to make it somewhat aperiodic.
All are tuned below 30Hz, so consequently are somewhat excursion limited. Still, short of 16Hz organ pipes or movie special effects, they should play loud enough for all but the head bangers.
To raise the point where baffle step compensation begins, I recommend the widest side be the baffle.
Unfortunately, in each case the tweeter will wind up being below ear height due to the woofer's location required to get a smooth/well damped response.
-------
Due to its low Vas/efficiency, I simmed dual MW 164s and got a pretty good sim and highest SPL in this ML-TL:
46.5" x 12.69" x 7.88"
drivers down 17.5", this is the midpoint between the two or the center if in a bipole layout
3.5" dia x 5" long vent
density = 0.5lbs/ft^3
-------
Single H10.1, this one's a natural for pipe loading so is my 'pick of the litter':
46.25" x 15.75" x 9.75"
driver down 18.42"
3.5" dia x 5" long vent
density = 0.25lbs/ft^3
-------
Single MW 1077, this one requires a much bigger cab than your limits, but still gives a good response in the smaller cab, with a very TL-like rounded off LF response:
46.5" x 16.93" x 10.5"
driver down 18.83"
3.5" dia x 4.5" long vent
density = 0.25lbs/ft^3
GM
Later on I realized I had the isobaric field turned on, and combined with the low Vas of the USA Morels, I 'saw' ~ what I expected to see WRT sims.I'm surprised that Morel would have two sets of driver specs, but there's quite a difference in some cases so used the Morel Europe specs for the following designs. Of course if the specs are off > ~10%, tuning becomes a tedious affair without measuring gear.
Don't have a clue about pricing, so some of these may be budget breakers.
All dims are inside.
Designs are 'max flat', so if near a wall or corner, the vent will need to be longer to lower tuning, or some damping can be applied to the vent to make it somewhat aperiodic.
All are tuned below 30Hz, so consequently are somewhat excursion limited. Still, short of 16Hz organ pipes or movie special effects, they should play loud enough for all but the head bangers.
To raise the point where baffle step compensation begins, I recommend the widest side be the baffle.
Unfortunately, in each case the tweeter will wind up being below ear height due to the woofer's location required to get a smooth/well damped response.
-------
Due to its low Vas/efficiency, I simmed dual MW 164s and got a pretty good sim and highest SPL in this ML-TL:
46.5" x 12.69" x 7.88"
drivers down 17.5", this is the midpoint between the two or the center if in a bipole layout
3.5" dia x 5" long vent
density = 0.5lbs/ft^3
-------
Single H10.1, this one's a natural for pipe loading so is my 'pick of the litter':
46.25" x 15.75" x 9.75"
driver down 18.42"
3.5" dia x 5" long vent
density = 0.25lbs/ft^3
-------
Single MW 1077, this one requires a much bigger cab than your limits, but still gives a good response in the smaller cab, with a very TL-like rounded off LF response:
46.5" x 16.93" x 10.5"
driver down 18.83"
3.5" dia x 4.5" long vent
density = 0.25lbs/ft^3
GM
> Dear GM!
> thank you very much, for your answer.
====
You're welcome!
====
>
> is there a hidden thing i cant see?
> what about the rest of the technical details?
====
??? These are simple rectangular pipes that ideally have the vent coming out the bottom, or at least near/at the bottom. If rigid material is used, such as 3/4" Baltic Birch 13 ply plywood or at least 1.125" thick MDF, no bracing should be required.
Of course either a massive or triangulated/spiked base is required and I recommend something massive on top, such as a piece of marble, slate, or heavy flower pot.
====
> if there is a model your are referring to? if so - please direct me to the link and i'll study it, make my own notes and post that on the thread.
====
You can model them in MJK's Mathcad worksheets, if that is what you mean. If you don't have Mathcad, an older, free demo is available through his site: http://www.quarter-wave.com/ Unfortunately you can't save your work, but I can send you the worksheets to look at the sims I did, or mod them if you want to see how various changes affect performance.
Really, if you're going to do pipes, you need to be familiar with all this.
====
>p.s. what about the mw1075? will it do?
====
Its Qes is too high for a well damped ML-TL, though a ~IB-like response (traditional TL) can be achieved in a long, folded one. In the same size cab as the MW 1077, it has a ~+3dB underdamped 'hump' centered between 40-50Hz. Many folks like this built-in boost, though it may sound 'boomy' in your room. If so, then it can be tamed by adding stuffing in the vent, with the attendent LF roll off.
====
> will i need a midrange? (and if so - where do i mount it?)
====
I don't have a clue since I'm not familiar with any of the Morels. Looking at the plots, it's sure tempting to try them with just a tweeter first though and limit the HF's off axis response some to better blend to a large driver. WRT mounting a mid/HF, due to the LF being well below ear level, they need to be above it.
GM
> thank you very much, for your answer.
====
You're welcome!
====
>
> is there a hidden thing i cant see?
> what about the rest of the technical details?
====
??? These are simple rectangular pipes that ideally have the vent coming out the bottom, or at least near/at the bottom. If rigid material is used, such as 3/4" Baltic Birch 13 ply plywood or at least 1.125" thick MDF, no bracing should be required.
Of course either a massive or triangulated/spiked base is required and I recommend something massive on top, such as a piece of marble, slate, or heavy flower pot.
====
> if there is a model your are referring to? if so - please direct me to the link and i'll study it, make my own notes and post that on the thread.
====
You can model them in MJK's Mathcad worksheets, if that is what you mean. If you don't have Mathcad, an older, free demo is available through his site: http://www.quarter-wave.com/ Unfortunately you can't save your work, but I can send you the worksheets to look at the sims I did, or mod them if you want to see how various changes affect performance.
Really, if you're going to do pipes, you need to be familiar with all this.
====
>p.s. what about the mw1075? will it do?
====
Its Qes is too high for a well damped ML-TL, though a ~IB-like response (traditional TL) can be achieved in a long, folded one. In the same size cab as the MW 1077, it has a ~+3dB underdamped 'hump' centered between 40-50Hz. Many folks like this built-in boost, though it may sound 'boomy' in your room. If so, then it can be tamed by adding stuffing in the vent, with the attendent LF roll off.
====
> will i need a midrange? (and if so - where do i mount it?)
====
I don't have a clue since I'm not familiar with any of the Morels. Looking at the plots, it's sure tempting to try them with just a tweeter first though and limit the HF's off axis response some to better blend to a large driver. WRT mounting a mid/HF, due to the LF being well below ear level, they need to be above it.
GM
Hi, you should have another look at the IPL site and the transmition lines on there (http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ ), as I have been looking at these recently and found a good reviev on TNT audio of one of his designs (http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/ipls3mtl2_e.html). As you can see in teh room the bass on these designs is theie main strong point, so they could be exactly what you are looking for.
Andrew.
Andrew.
Dear Andrew,
thanks for your attention.
i looked at the links you sent me and didn't find any designs what so ever.
it seems like you havn't read the first post where i explane why i can only buy from morel israel that manufacture in israel, and not from anyone out side, financially it doesn't pay.
i'm really looking for a design that will fit the maximum size i can spare in my small space. the the TL will take advantage of this size and in return it will give me good low frq' range.
right now i took GM's advice about the H1.10 woofer. (165$ each in israel)
i will build the boxes (building cost are little and it take much time)
i'll probably monut the woofer on the nerrow side and place the mid and the tweeter in the same level above it, that way both of them are exactly at my ear level.
when i'll finish the boxes, i'll update this thread.
thanks again for all of the good people who cared, especially GM.
p.s. i find the quarter wave length reading metirial quite interesting!
thanks for your attention.
i looked at the links you sent me and didn't find any designs what so ever.
it seems like you havn't read the first post where i explane why i can only buy from morel israel that manufacture in israel, and not from anyone out side, financially it doesn't pay.
i'm really looking for a design that will fit the maximum size i can spare in my small space. the the TL will take advantage of this size and in return it will give me good low frq' range.
right now i took GM's advice about the H1.10 woofer. (165$ each in israel)
i will build the boxes (building cost are little and it take much time)
i'll probably monut the woofer on the nerrow side and place the mid and the tweeter in the same level above it, that way both of them are exactly at my ear level.
when i'll finish the boxes, i'll update this thread.
thanks again for all of the good people who cared, especially GM.
p.s. i find the quarter wave length reading metirial quite interesting!
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