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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Cardioid Bass.... yes, very good!!
Cardioid Bass.... yes, very good!!
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Old 8th October 2012, 02:13 PM   #1
gainphile is offline gainphile  Australia
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Lightbulb Cardioid Bass.... yes, very good!!

I have been very much appealed to the discussions around Cardioid Bass. More complex to design than dipoles, yet they seem to promise good things when compared to monopoles or dipoles:

1) Least affected to room positioning
http://www.wvier.de/texte/Beneficial...20Coupling.pdf

2) Able to pressurise the room
www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/145876-measured-monopole-dipole-room-responses-13.html#post3188523

3) I had a listen to Musikelectronic Geithain 901K


A W-Frame dipole can be converted to Cardiod quite easily by sealing one of the woofer and equalise accordingly.

DIPOLE Setup:

Click the image to open in full size.


CARDIOID Setup:

Click the image to open in full size.


Equalised response to meet 20hz, Q=0.5 target.

Note: NO LOWPASS XO in this graph.

Click the image to open in full size.


I will need a good day and spare time to get outside polar measurements but a quick listen at the back of the speakers is quite revealing.


The Cardioids have punchy bass, something I miss when listening to dipoles. I'ts also as articulate.

In short, I like it !!
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Last edited by gainphile; 8th October 2012 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 8th October 2012, 02:37 PM   #2
markus76 is offline markus76  Germany
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Did you also measure the in-room response around the listening position for both configurations?
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Old 8th October 2012, 02:41 PM   #3
john k... is offline john k...  United States
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By sealing one woofer of the W frame you end up with a monopole and a dipole. This alone does not sum to yield a cardioid. The dipole and monopole must be individually equalized to have the same axial response. From you post it is not apparent when you talk about Eqing to meet your target is that is what you did.

But, as you know, I've been on the cardioid wagon since the infroduction of the NaO 10 teas ago.

[edit] Additionally, to get it "perfect" with that apporach the AC of the monopole must be at the axial center of the dipole.
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Last edited by john k...; 8th October 2012 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 8th October 2012, 02:46 PM   #4
RockLeeEV is offline RockLeeEV  Canada
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What's with the massive peaks at 600/1200/2400 hz? Cavity resonance? Mind showing the effect of stuffing the dipole section a bit with a thin layer of fibreglass?
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Old 8th October 2012, 05:46 PM   #5
Draki is offline Draki  Macedonia
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Question, hopefully not OT: what is the rule (formula) for the bass drivers which can be used horizontally?
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Old 8th October 2012, 05:56 PM   #6
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draki View Post
Question, hopefully not OT: what is the rule (formula) for the bass drivers which can be used horizontally?
Sag percentage, it's like...3% or less? something like that.

Edit: It's 5%.

Last edited by DrDyna; 8th October 2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 8th October 2012, 06:02 PM   #7
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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Gainphile, what speaker is that? It's gorgeous.

Edit: Found it on your site.

Last edited by DrDyna; 8th October 2012 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 8th October 2012, 10:40 PM   #8
Draki is offline Draki  Macedonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
Sag percentage, it's like...3% or less? something like that.

Edit: It's 5%.

Thanks DrDyna, in the meantime found this : Parts Express - Subwoofer Qualification Formulae For Downfiring Configurations

Turned to be 2,7% so guess OK for up-down mounting.
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Old 8th October 2012, 11:16 PM   #9
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Cardioid Bass.... yes, very good!!
I would never do that

though it is said that a woofer is more happy moving out than in
interesting to know if playing up would help it
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Old 8th October 2012, 11:36 PM   #10
studiotech is offline studiotech  United States
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Thanks for the post Gain! At what distance was your measurement taken? Am I correct in assuming that the measurement was taken down low in front of the woofers and that's why the mids and highs look so off?

I am going to experiment with trying to get more of a cardioid response from my woofer too. I've been using the Bonded Logic behind the Neo10s , but want to try several layers behind and around the woofer now too. I think JohnK is going to redo his testing of the monopole, dipole and cardioid woofers and send the info to Elias to put through his wavelet app. Have you been reading that thread?

Greg
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