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Old 21st October 2012, 01:10 AM   #41
GM is offline GM  United States
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Hmm, sounds like GW might get a near clone of the 2245 performance wise, one of my all time favorite HE ‘sub’ drivers.

Yes, as I noted, the 2226 works well in a [traditional] horn app and is a modern high power version of the 2225 combo horn driver that IIRC was developed to compete with the Altec 803, the 416’s predecessor.

Yes, my definition of a TQWT is a long vent BR that’s been morphed into an inverse tapered pipe horn.

Again, AFAIK, all Altec/GPA small format drivers have the same basic diaphragm assemblies, ergo will interchange. Ditto all the large format driver’s diaphragms.

The late Bill Eckle archived a pretty decent build history of each and thankfully his family has so far kept his website up in memoriam:

1

Altec

altec

Depends on the app as to whether a low Mms is a performance plus since all else equal, a ‘faster’ diaphragm wave speed is just another way of saying harmonic distortion happens faster, rising to a high amplitude before reaching its HF mass corner.

To broadband control [damp] it requires lowering the [effective] motor strength [Qes], so a good way to lower production cost and/or make it suitable over a wide range of apps simply by adjusting its Qts.

A driver’s inductance [Le] should ideally be zero, but in practice it too is also app dependent.

Regardless of the app and all else equal, a high compliance [Vas] OTOH yields higher efficiency with the lower various distortions this implies. By far, the best sounding woofers I’ve experienced are the compliance controlled 500-1000+ L ones due to their ability to maintain tonal balance even at incredibly low power levels, so for me, the huge cabs required to go low is a small price to pay.

High power rated, low Vas drivers such as the 2226 OTOH tend to only ‘come alive’ at high power, so not my recommendation for a typical high SQ HIFI and marginal for a < reference level HT app. I’m guessing this is what Zen Mod was referring to in post 18.

Nothing personal, for a variety of reasons I’m just not as ‘formal’ in my postings as I once was.

GM
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Old 21st October 2012, 01:20 AM   #42
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One more time, there’s no official default optimum per se, only what best meets the needs of the app, though O.B. or I.B. comes closest.

Active EQ can correct many speaker and room response problems, but it’s best overall to cut rather than boost, so I always recommend that the largest cab one can afford/tolerate be used to maximize tuning flexibility when the room can’t be sufficiently optimized to high end recording studio/sound-stage performance.

That said, as DSP continues to evolve with increasing processing power, I imagine it won’t be too long before we can just wall mount a gross [or two] of tiny ‘cheaper by the crate load’ ‘FR’ satellites around the room and DSP this loose array into a believable holographic experience.

GM
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Old 21st October 2012, 01:53 AM   #43
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So. Time to dump the 2226. I cant see the 2236 conversion changing things greatly, but could be wrong. Let me know. That leaves me with 416, 515, and td15m. These all seem to fit the bill of the possiblity of good hifi SQ. Wife is not real keen on the Onken, says it looks short and fat. Women are funny about that sort of thing. What kind of enclosure are we looking at to get 40hz. I cant imagine needing more and I am not a bass junkie. Not saying I dont like it, but wouldn't trade speed and attack for sheer Lf extension. All the above drivers are similar, with exception of TD showing much lower Vas. It does have extremely loe Le, which should be nice for HF extension.
TD15m
AE Speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely.

What kind of box size can I expect fomr above drivers for 40hZ -3dB ?

Do you still say 515, giving up low end for better mid?
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Old 21st October 2012, 02:01 AM   #44
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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I feel for your pain

but , that's sweet pain

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Old 21st October 2012, 02:06 AM   #45
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Indeed. I do love the fact that I hace had multiple people tell me that a very well regarded woofer is not do good for home hifi SQ. Better than building out a box and figuring it out myself. Wife really doesnt like the short squatty ones
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Old 21st October 2012, 02:36 AM   #46
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The late Bill Eckle archived a pretty decent build history of each and thankfully his family has so far kept his website up in memoriam:

1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GM
Greg,

Thank you for mentioning Bill Eckle. He was a first class guy that helped many people.

Best Regards,
TerryO
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:02 PM   #47
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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buzz

buzzin' happy for weekend ?
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:10 PM   #48
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Definitely. How's ZM?
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:19 PM   #49
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Hey, ZM. Do you think doing this mod is worth keeping these drivers, or should i sell them.

Building a JBL 15" "Super Sub" driver on the relative cheap! - Page 2 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

Brings the Qts up into the MLTL range for straight line and with lower efficiency, Iam going to have to throw more power at them anyway. Dont know what the hell to do. Could get some 414 for $250, but they are 12". Really wanted the 15". Wife will not go for the Onken, so ifI got 416, it would have to go in bass reflex, unless I could put it in a tall Tqwt like this one.

Post#7
Horn for 2440

I can handle the woodworking part no problem.
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Old 21st October 2012, 09:35 PM   #50
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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naah

just sell them and buy cheapest (non alnico) 416 from GPA

if you're going to cover 400-800(1K) with these , you need sweetness and speed of Altec

if you 're planning 15" (just ) up to 400 , then use whatever you want and feed it with some big MF , I don't care .......

but - if you want to make it FW-friendly 2 way (plus supertweet)....... you need more delicacy

again - 2226 is good job , but not for this task
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