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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 3rd October 2012, 02:38 AM   #31
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Let's consider the following example.

The source material is the Sheffield Drum and Track CD, a good recording of various drum solos IMHO.

The most realistic sound to me for this CD comes from headphones, high directivity horn loaded 3 way speakers, or small 2 way (1" tweeter, 5.25" woofer) speakers auditioned in the nearfield. Environment is a typical untreated living room , about 14 x 20 x 8'.

If I hear it in the farfield through the 2 way speakers above, the transients are "diluted" by the reflections. They do not sound as realistic to me. Have you even listened to music with too much reverb added? The detail or texture decreases as one adds more reverb. This dilution I referred to above is similar but to a lesser degree.

Now if I listen to classical music in the farfield on that 2 way speaker, it sounds more realistic that through headphones/horns/nearfield to me.

What speaker configuration offers the best balance?

David, even if the speakers are neutral, doesn't the room add character with the reflected sound? Not unlike concert halls?

Pano, what is the reference measurement distance for that target curve? What size of room? thanks for graph!
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Old 3rd October 2012, 03:34 AM   #32
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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I dunno, wish I did. It's a famous curve, so we should be able to find more info. It may need a little tweaking for your room, but it works well in most domestic environments.
The curve is definitely not the 1M response, it's the listening position response.
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Old 4th October 2012, 05:38 PM   #33
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
With a microphone!

I use a wide band cardioid mic because its directivity is similar to my ears, but an omni will do. I measure at the listening position.

There should be plenty of the B&K curve around the web. I'll try to find one.
EDIT: Attached is the classic curve. I start my roll-off higher, circa 400 Hz.
Is it impulse response measurement ? Windowing, smoothing etc ?

Or averaged bandpass 1/3 noise amplitude response ?
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Old 4th October 2012, 05:42 PM   #34
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Are you describing the ear or the mic ?
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Old 4th October 2012, 06:07 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcoma View Post
... If I hear it in the farfield through the 2 way speakers above, the transients are "diluted" by the reflections. They do not sound as realistic to me. Have you even listened to music with too much reverb added? The detail or texture decreases as one adds more reverb. This dilution I referred to above is similar but to a lesser degree....
I very much agree! Big problem in sound recording and reproduction. With no reverb it sounds dead on some systems/rooms, with a little bit of reverb it can sound horrible on other systems/rooms. Tricky stuff.

Edit:
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Last edited by KaffiMann; 4th October 2012 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 4th October 2012, 06:41 PM   #36
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
Or averaged bandpass 1/3 noise amplitude response ?
Oh, I see what you mean! Usually 1/3 or 1/6th averaged response as measured by HOLMImpulse for me. Don't know what B&K used. But as long as my overall response meets that falling target, it sounds balanced to my ear. Most visitors comment on how well balanced my system is, so it may be working.
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Old 4th October 2012, 07:01 PM   #37
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Pano, there are a number of combinations of direct response and power response and room that will give you that curve. Are you saying that in your experience, the curve works in most rooms, with most speakers, regardless of differences in directivity? Or are you saying that in your combination of speakers (which are by now well known on diyaudio ) and room, the curve works?

I do agree that the general trend in that curve sounds right.
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Old 4th October 2012, 07:07 PM   #38
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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I haven't tried it on all rooms with all speakers, so can't say. But in my experience, and the experience of others I know, this tends to work well in a domestic listening environment. If you have a computer music source, it's easy to try.

Direct vs reflected is one reason I use a cardioid mic. The omni picks up more from behind me than my ears do. Not so important outside or in a very large room, rather important in a small room. Perceived tonal balance is dependent on direct and reflected sound together. In what ratio, I do not know. I do think the curve need a little tweaking depending on the room and speaker. But just a little.
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Old 4th October 2012, 10:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcoma View Post
If I hear it in the farfield through the 2 way speakers above, the transients are "diluted" by the reflections. They do not sound as realistic to me. Have you even listened to music with too much reverb added? The detail or texture decreases as one adds more reverb. This dilution I referred to above is similar but to a lesser degree.
Personally I find it the other way around, the texture "improves", becomes more interesting with greater echo. This greater detail in the music is a 2 edged sword, if the system adds beyond a certain level of audible distortion to the sound then such recordings become difficult or impossible to listen to, the ear/brain overloads trying to sort it all out. But if the system is sufficiently clean then these recordings become the most magical of all, have the greatest impact.

This is why I use "difficult" recordings to test systems, not super simple and clean ones. If you're buying a new car do you test its capability by finding the smoothest, straightest road to drive on ...?

Frank
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Old 5th October 2012, 12:33 AM   #40
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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