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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 30th September 2012, 05:26 PM   #51
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Where did i say i dont use objective and proven methods for the design work?

I told what my aim for the end products are, whitout knowhow i dont think i would have been a succesful speaker manufacturer the last 7 years, supplying speaker to professional users who need their equipment to work in the desired way.

I have designed speakers for well over 40 Years, and, believe it or not, i“m not as stupid as my way with words sometimes suggests.

I know my skills, You thou, seems to be without par in the department of arrogance and rudeness, or do You simply enjoy it?
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Old 30th September 2012, 05:35 PM   #52
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Sreten, be cool
Sometimes design speaker is fun although you don't have the skills or the tools.
ingvar ahlberg is an adept of first order but seems open to discover other thing ? right ?

I was myself very fond of first order but i discovered phase tracking and i can design things very complicated and very simple, no matter.
What I am less fan is when people invent physical laws or ignore it.
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Old 30th September 2012, 06:51 PM   #53
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+1

1st order is interesting, but after trying for years to get one to work properly, I have to say that I would almost always revert to 2nd order filters.

A 1st order series component, plus a shunt connected notch can work well as well as a 2nd order filter, and in some cases better.

I dont wish to berate the project, I just find Morel too expensive, or perhaps not good value in the same way the mega £££ Seas/SS stuff is poor value.

Since you have a good measurement setup, I suggest you experiment with minor changes, measure, listen. Im certain there is more these drivers could offer. The main problem with odd orders is the phase separation through the crossover region. Id say that 3rd is probably easier to get right, than a 1st order filter. Unfortunately, sometimes the Idealist has to yield to the Realist in us all.

But most of all

Enjoy
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Old 6th October 2012, 10:15 PM   #54
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I see this interesting thread drifting off into the usual diyaudio waffle! That's a shame because I like smooth polycones.

My own inclination would be to try a polycarbonate or mylar tweeter with these drivers for the complete smooth sound, but I simmed something similar using a visaton metal tweeter and the 1.2mH Visaton W170S drivers. Your soft dome Morel CAT 408 tweeter should be fine.

This is an MTM layout on a 60x20cm baffle, aligned for freestanding on 40L overall closed box. It worked much better than I expected. The 5kHz notch is a BEAUTY which dumps some cone breakup and aligns the phase (and hence imaging) very well.

Obviously the 0.6mH Morel CAW 638 units will behave slightly differently, but I see enough there to encourage you. I forced a steepish rolloff on the tweeter to give it an easy life.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Morel_MTM_CircuitSim.JPG (24.4 KB, 321 views)
File Type: jpg Morel_MTM_Sim.JPG (85.3 KB, 304 views)
File Type: jpg Morel_MTM_PhaseSim.JPG (51.7 KB, 303 views)
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Old 7th October 2012, 12:35 PM   #55
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Fiddling with x-over a little, tried reversing phase of hf etc, mostly listening thou.
I didn“t think this kind of drivers needed this much breakin“in time, i“m used to that with "pro" drivers but thought that drivers with softer suspensions worked better out straight of the box.

Not so, they have improved a lot the latest weeks, both in lf extension but also in imaging and recreating (creating?) ambience in recordings, this might be filterrelated too ofcourse.

Will do new measurements and post soon.

Still, they have grown to something to my ears eminently enjoyable for listening to music on.
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Old 7th October 2012, 04:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Your soft dome Morel CAT 408 tweeter should be fine.
I like them a lot, not really a fan of domes, spent the latest 20 years listening to hf units with controlled dispersion, cd/horn and amt drivers.

This thou is something i really can live with and works good in my room.

Will build another pair of these speakers, allmost identical internally but with the SCM 636 lf units instead and a Mundorf AMT23CM in between, mainly out of curiosity and to see if the rather expensive lf drivers are worth the extra money.
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Old 7th October 2012, 05:40 PM   #57
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Ingvar, has the driver & filter components shipment arrived?
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Old 8th October 2012, 01:37 AM   #58
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ingvar ahlberg View Post

a)Where did i say i dont use objective and proven methods for the design work?

b)I know my skills, You thou, seems to be without par in the
department of arrogance and rudeness, or do You simply enjoy it?
Hi,

a) You didn't say you did, you just stated marketing waffle.

b) So do I. But I'm not a person who will quote such guff
as I've missed out in the above quote as an argument.

http://guruproaudio.com

I really can't do with disingenuous representation. Having
worked with a Swedish company for years (Ericsson), I
have first hand experience of how you might think its OK.

It isn't, not by different cultural standards, and you'll
never get as far as you could in English speaking market
with a name like guruproaudio, its a total oxymoron.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 8th October 2012 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 8th October 2012, 04:08 AM   #59
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Good Morning, it is here at least.

Quote:
disingenuous representation
Where? Is that to imply that i“ve something to do
with Guru Audio? If so, that is not the case, never has been.

If there are any oxymora in my writing they are unintentional, based on
substandard knowledge in English, or might be clumsy attempts at beeing funny.
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Old 8th October 2012, 06:13 AM   #60
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Sreten, calm down

Guru Pro Audio looks to be what's called Ino Audio in Sweden and just because they have the same first name (Ingvar) doesn't mean they're the same person.
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