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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 28th September 2012, 10:12 PM   #11
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I'd still suggest reversing the tweeter polarity and taking another measurement. The tweeter extends below 2.5khz no doubt. And that area either looks out of phase, or your slopes are to far apart leaving a hole
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Old 28th September 2012, 10:24 PM   #12
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Already ordered a pair of these and I hope I'll have the kit at home before next weekend. Can't wait to start building these!

Here's another picture Click the image to open in full size.

For my own listening impressions you could simply read the post about it on my blog -> ?music

Rammstein was ridiculously fun to play on these speakers. Ever since I visited Ingvar a couple of weeks ago I've been trying to replicate that sofa-shaking bass at 0:23-0:24 in Fuhre Mich but nothing in my house can do it.
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Old 28th September 2012, 10:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Rammstein was ridiculously fun to play on these speakers
Yes it was my friend, with the new x-over even better, since You were here iīve had time to listen at very low levels too, which wasīnt that fun in the beginning, but as the drivers are broken in the low level dynamics improves drasticaly and now they are very nice for those who play soft, not anything You or i will be caught doing?
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Old 28th September 2012, 10:46 PM   #14
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True that Morel arent cheap. They arent unique but they are usable. Cheaper alternatives everywhere. With Morel youre paying for things like large flatwound or hex wire voicecoils. The advantages of that id imagine would be high BL with respect to the resultant inductance, in comparison.

But id agree with Tux, youre tweeter is wrongly phased.
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Last edited by mondogenerator; 28th September 2012 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 29th September 2012, 01:11 AM   #15
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ingvar ahlberg View Post
Hearsay or experience?
I'm with sreten here.

My experience with Morel is that their cone drivers' unit-unit consistency (even units from the same batch) is so risible that I cannot fathom a situation where I'd find them suitable regardless of their other virtues (though large voicecoils is pretty much the beginning and end of that list).

Their tweeters do seem to be more consistent in their performance.
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Old 29th September 2012, 02:42 AM   #16
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ingvar ahlberg View Post

Hearsay or experience?
Hi,

What is the difference ? Your bigging up your design whilst also clearly
stating you have real relative experience of designing similar speakers.

Its not rocket science to realise / discover good drivers designed for
domestic use actually do the job a lot better in much smaller cabinets
than 95dB+ drivers usually designed for a different purpose, usually SPL.

Sod the guru stuff, and the intimations your design is fantastic, I'm out
of here and you need to apply some circumspection to what you say.

rgds, sreten.

If you want to build a pair of speakers involving $650 worth of drivers
there are plenty of choices out there, some are a lot more ambitious.

MTM's are hardly thin on the ground. In this case there are some better
documented, described, detailed and more accurate designs available
for a lot less, capable of the same sort of performance envelope.

I'm not knocking the design as such, I just can't do with the hyperbole
and waffle about the technical details, e.g. the two Morel bass drivers
at 86dB each into half space are equivalent to a 4 ohm 86dB driver at
100Hz into full space, real sensitivity is 83dB/W, or 86dB/2.83V/1m,
nothing like 92dB at 1m, and the tweeter only does 89dB ....

Expensive drivers don't make a good design if they are not good value
in the first place, and here there is nothing to suggest optimum use, e.g.
whilst you can use two 17L Vas drivers in a 55L box you have choices.
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Last edited by sreten; 29th September 2012 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 29th September 2012, 09:35 AM   #17
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My intentions were only to share something that i think worked out well.
Not that i found a new theory on par with Einsteins, wich by the way are questioned more and more, there is nothing new here, only a design that imo works very well.

Incidentely, everyone who has been here for listening, quite a few in this home, agrees.

As for the very different opinions regarding driver quality, i think that is nothing unique for this particular brand.

I clearly state that i donīt usually work with this kind of speakers but at this time there was good reasons to try, i canīt see where iīm trying to build a gurustatus here but let it be official now and here, iīm not a guru! Wearing ponytail thou.

The x-over issue adressed above has been rectified, the lp section was way to low, hence the large dip.

Regarding sensitivity, 100Hz from the signal generator into the amp, 2,83Vrms across speaker terminals, measured with Fluke 179 TRMS measures 92dB at 1M, that equals 89dB for 1W which seems to me coresponding to two 86dB drivers parallell in half space, as stated measured in my livingroom so roomgain is ofcourse part of measurement.

Regardless of technical pros and cons, i find these speakers ridicously fun to listen to music through, thatīs the reason i wanted to tell about it.
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Old 29th September 2012, 12:21 PM   #18
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This is all VERY interesting, Ingvar! You'll just have to ignore sreten's usual negativity. The fact is that good polycones are thin on the ground, and the Morel CAW 638 is a mid/bass driver of great loveliness that we'd all like to try. Vented magnet is also a feature that I always particularly like.

Alas, Morel don't make modelling easy, though I found a nice series crossover Morel design at Eltim:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

You seem to have made a variant of Lynn Olson's respected Ariel here with an overdamped bass from the large cabinet. I'd be interested to see what crossover values are working for you. Depends on bafflestep choice really.
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Old 29th September 2012, 02:01 PM   #19
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Few polycones? Few good ones perhaps. I havent heard these Morels, but the data for the CAW 538 and 638 are interesting. However, I had never heard a modern polymer cone that i liked, they seem to smooth over the detail. Disclaimer: my sig lol. If I found a hard poly cone, say nylon, aramide, then maybe. Polyprop just sounds mushy to my ears. Id even take metal in preference, which before i listened to them, was completely opposite to my expectations. That said, if the filter is fixed, then they look reasonbly flat. I have a similarly sized single woofer TQWT that was designed to be flat down to 43hz with a 5 inch driver. im sure yours sound great, as im sure mine do also. But, i bet mine cost a lot less.
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Old 29th September 2012, 02:32 PM   #20
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I really like my morel MTM's (MW144's with DMS 37's) They don't play low like the ones featured in this thread (as each mid is in a 5L sealed enclosure) but the bass they do produce surprised me!

getting the crossover right made a world of difference. I suspect when I finally get the 10" vifas covering the lows up to 200 - 300 Hz then they will really start to shine The breif test I did (in mono) did seem to indicate an improvement in clarity once the mids weren't trying to reproduce the full range.

Tony.
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