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Old 15th October 2012, 03:21 AM   #31
HiroPro is offline HiroPro  Canada
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Originally Posted by woodsart View Post
Yes, a cap and new crossover to experiment with. I sent you an email buddy.
Do you know the changes or have xover schematic for this new xover? Is the newer xover also 4th order? I can see something done to the woofer notch but not much more.

Jeff's measurements are just amazing and I also don't see that rising FR RAW is speaking of in any of the measurements he's taken. Well not true. It's there but it's not extreme. Also it actually drops from 18 to 20K and the bump is around 12-16 in the plots. (In Jeffs overall design not talking the tweet on it's own) The published measurements show this as well though ever so slight. I wouldn't call a slight 2dB bump and then a slight dive from 18 to 20 plus a "rise". I question these assertions looking at the published data RAW. Do you have LD25 measurements you're willing to share?

Do you hear such woodsart?

Jeff's seems to have done a really great job on the xover so I'm very curious what changes have been made.

Last edited by HiroPro; 15th October 2012 at 03:50 AM.
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Old 15th October 2012, 03:59 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by HiroPro View Post
Do you know the changes or have xover schematic for this new xover? Is the newer xover also 4th order? I can see something done to the woofer notch but not much more.

Jeff's measurements are just amazing and I also don't see that rising FR RAW is speaking of in any of the measurements he's taken. Well not true. It's there but it's not extreme.

Do you hear such woodsart?

Jeff's seems to have done a really great job on the xover so I'm very curious what changes have been made.
Not sure about the 4th order, but Al can chime in on that. I have not received crossover yet, but he will be sending it shortly.

You are probably asking the wrong person when it comes to too many tech specs, actually I asked if anyone had complained about a brightness in the high end. It had been mentioned to me, but, does not seem to bother me too much (if it's there), as I think I am on of those hearing in the higher octaves. Most of my issues are shreaky violins and distorted piano keys and full orchestra.

And when Jeff mentioned that the tweeter wasn't too much to complain about, I would have to see. And, there isn't anything to complaim about, really. Some songs annoy me, but, I have come to realize issues like this are most always not these drivers fault.

Enough clean power, a good source of music origin and many others, particularly when streaming produces good sound.

Jeff did a great job and I am very happy with them. I never was one to be satisfied with something very long and who would'nt like to experiment with any upgrade?
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Old 15th October 2012, 03:59 AM   #33
HiroPro is offline HiroPro  Canada
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Originally Posted by RAW View Post
Robert
The 1.3uf cap is what you would like.You may get a pair from Bob at CSS.The 1.3uf is what is needed and the 1.5uf capacitor is to much.Talk to Bob.
Or just wait and have a listen to the other crossovers I designed.Bob is sending ya these crossover parts.
The crossovers I designed use less parts and tame the rising frequency response of the tweeter.
Hey RAW are you Al from Vic? Did you redesign the Triton xover? Curious what you've done to it. Thinking you've gone from 4th order to a 3rd order butterworth? Curious lobe/polar affects etc with this change as I'm novice. Is LR4 or 3B better for D'Appolito?

You speak of a rising FR on the LD25X but I don't see it on the published CSS or Jeff's measurements both on the driver and in a loudspeaker 4th order. If anything it starts a dip from 18 to 20 plus on the published plots.

Can you share measurements taken on LD25X?

I've been hesitant on this purchase due to lack of published baffle centers and being sorta juggled between Bob and Jeff but never actually getting the bloody dimensions out of either of them...

$100 bones is a lot for a tweet like that in this market as well.

These two reasons is why I don't have a pair now woodstart but I hope to in the near future!

I'm also curious on the working being done with the LD25X waveguide.

Last edited by HiroPro; 15th October 2012 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 15th October 2012, 05:12 AM   #34
HiroPro is offline HiroPro  Canada
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Originally Posted by woodsart View Post
Not sure about the 4th order, but Al can chime in on that. I have not received crossover yet, but he will be sending it shortly.

You are probably asking the wrong person when it comes to too many tech specs, actually I asked if anyone had complained about a brightness in the high end. It had been mentioned to me, but, does not seem to bother me too much (if it's there), as I think I am on of those hearing in the higher octaves. Most of my issues are shreaky violins and distorted piano keys and full orchestra.

And when Jeff mentioned that the tweeter wasn't too much to complain about, I would have to see. And, there isn't anything to complaim about, really. Some songs annoy me, but, I have come to realize issues like this are most always not these drivers fault.

Enough clean power, a good source of music origin and many others, particularly when streaming produces good sound.

Jeff did a great job and I am very happy with them. I never was one to be satisfied with something very long and who would'nt like to experiment with any upgrade?

How are you driving them? IE what amplification.
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Old 15th October 2012, 02:02 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by HiroPro View Post
How are you driving them? IE what amplification.
There are in the theater area with a Marantz SR-7005 7.1 125wpc. Usually online with Pandora through the OPPO or some SACDs. I listen in Pure Direct Mode.

Sometimes I move them into the Office/PC and listen to files and online music Spotify/grooveshark/Pandora with a Musical Paradise 301 Mk2 tube 6.5wpc.
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Old 15th October 2012, 02:26 PM   #36
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HiroPro, I have quite a few measurements and details for both the flush mounted and waveguide mounted version of this tweeter. It's all posted in the CSS subforum in the commercial area. Do a search for my name. I'm not affiliated with CSS, however that makes you feel about them. I also posted some info in the very last post of the waveguide development thread over on parts express tech talk. I have more work to do with the waveguide build.

There is a little peak in the top octave. It's likely breaking up a bit up there. It cancels off axis far enough. But I chatted with bikinpunk punk about it and he didn't get that. So who knows.
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Old 15th October 2012, 02:27 PM   #37
HiroPro is offline HiroPro  Canada
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Originally Posted by woodsart View Post
There are in the theater area with a Marantz SR-7005 7.1 125wpc. Usually online with Pandora through the OPPO or some SACDs. I listen in Pure Direct Mode.

Sometimes I move them into the Office/PC and listen to files and online music Spotify/grooveshark/Pandora with a Musical Paradise 301 Mk2 tube 6.5wpc.
And you like this rig more than your big one IE Phil's et al?

How are you driving those Phils? The AVR wouldn't be enough IMHO.

That's a great setup for sure. On the transport is the Oppo being used as the converter?

That rig would benefit from a good pre and DAC not that the AVR or the Oppo is poor or anything.

Have you heard of Emotiva? They have a fully balanced/differential pre that looks interesting for $900 bucks.

XSP-1

A nice Kingwa DAC would top it off over the opamp driven Sabre in the Oppo if used as converter.

Or even better yet get a DAC with a preamp ability and volume attenuator. Kingwa has a NICE PCM1704UK based DAC with a really nice relay volume on it.

With this unit you kill two birds with one stone. Prob the best upgrade IMHO you could make to that rig.

Reference 10.32

For amps I'd wait for an Audiopower.it DPA-400 F-3 based unit that does 120VAC. Roberto is saying he will have an F-3 based module soon without the SMPS section then you just use a DPS-500.

It a shame Kingwa doesn't put a digital domain active DSP xover function into one of his DACs. It would be fantastic to have a digital xover then his amazing analog stages thus avoiding line/speaker level post converter high/low pass for woofer.

A Kingwa Reference 10.32 with 2.1 outs and DSP xover paired with Roberto/MDI's F-3 into Bob/Jeffs Tritton and perhaps Bob's SDX 15 incher if he ever does a production run... Drive the SDX with Roberto's F-2 and all bass management in Kingwa's DAC digital domain!

DREAM RIG

PS I don't get why hardly any DACs are 2.1 and have digital xovers in them if they have a DSP engine...

Last edited by HiroPro; 15th October 2012 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 15th October 2012, 02:50 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by HiroPro View Post
And you like this rig more than your big one IE Phil's et al?

How are you driving those Phils? The AVR wouldn't be enough IMHO.

That's a great setup for sure. On the transport is the Oppo being used as the converter?

That rig would benefit from a good pre and DAC not that the AVR or the Oppo is poor or anything.

Have you heard of Emotiva? They have a fully balanced/differential pre that looks interesting for $900 bucks.

XSP-1

A nice Kingwa DAC would top it off over the opamp driven Sabre in the Oppo if used as converter.

Or even better yet get a DAC with a preamp ability and volume attenuator. Kingwa has a NICE PCM1704UK based DAC with a really nice relay volume on it.

With this unit you kill two birds with one stone. Prob the best upgrade IMHO you could make to that rig.

Reference 10.32
Yeah the OPPO, in my opinion does a great job, I can really tell from the Panasonic player. But the Marantz is superb as it is not as SS, but warm like a tube. But not enough to make the PHil2s shine, though. As you said not enough power. Most I know drive them....particularly the 3s with 200-300wpc.

And, yes, I had others, like the XPA-5, but too clinical for me and big and heavy. So I had to make a decision as the WAF in that room is significantly important. I want a pre, but the room is the issue, but I am working on that though.

Those are some good suggestions and I will keep them in mind, but the Tritons love the Marantz.
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Old 15th October 2012, 02:57 PM   #39
HiroPro is offline HiroPro  Canada
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
HiroPro, I have quite a few measurements and details for both the flush mounted and waveguide mounted version of this tweeter. It's all posted in the CSS subforum in the commercial area. Do a search for my name. I'm not affiliated with CSS, however that makes you feel about them. I also posted some info in the very last post of the waveguide development thread over on parts express tech talk. I have more work to do with the waveguide build.

There is a little peak in the top octave. It's likely breaking up a bit up there. It cancels off axis far enough. But I chatted with bikinpunk punk about it and he didn't get that. So who knows.
I don't feel anything about CSS/Bob as I've never done business. I've only got into this DIY thing for a couple years now and all my kits etc came from the states. It's a real shame as Bob is but 50 KM away from me. I didn't make it to the Vancouver Island DIY GTG in late Aug either so I don't know the community here yet.

Thanks to Woodsart I have the driver baffle centers as the bloody drawings didn't have that dimension and neither Bob nor Jeff could be bothered to get back to me with the measurements...

This is why I didn't purchase yet ehh...

Kinda turned me off the way the two shuffled me around via email about it and Bob simply never got back to me.

I guess I have to buy the drivers first to get any customer service ehh...
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Old 15th October 2012, 03:04 PM   #40
HiroPro is offline HiroPro  Canada
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Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
Hmmm.... I'm a bit perplexed here, but there must be some confusion. That is indeed my crossover, and it was drawn in my own software, so its appearance matches all of the other crossovers I have drawn. Maybe the topology is very close to the one you did, I don't know, I have never heard or seen that design, so I don't know. My crossover doesn't have any fancy circuits in it, since the drivers are quite easy to work with, so there could be many systems with a similar topology.

To answer the questions above about the notch filter on the woofers - I haven't seen any higher resolution response curves posted for the woofer that I am aware of, but it has a 20dB spike at 14khz due to ringing in the aluminum dust cap. I felt it prudent to notch that out even though it was a long way from the crossover point. I don't like to excit that kind of ringing in a driver if I can avoid it.

Jeff Bagby

Buddy, Jeff he's talking about the GRAPHICS you used in the program! Not the xover design like you ripped it off or something!



Regarding that silly orange (of all colours ugg) aluminum dust cap, does Bob intent to change that in future production runs? You had some interesting suggestions as to coating it with something but I cant' remember what you said to use.

Last edited by HiroPro; 15th October 2012 at 03:06 PM.
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