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Old 24th September 2012, 07:02 PM   #1
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Default And Now For Something REALLY BIG

I really love the videos of HUGE JBL's and big ol' Altecs on various sites. The sheer size of the cabinets and visceral presence of the sound they seem, and are reported to produce is intriguing and 'lust worthy'. Especially the big 4350 & 4355 and Kenrick Sounds own 4351 (a vertically arranged 4355)

There don't appear to be many projects on the scale of these $$$$$ giants, and understandably so with WAF, room size and cost etc to be taken into account. But what if..............?

Maybe 2x 15inch Eminence drivers for bass up to 100-150hz, a decent 10inch mid (recommendations?) up to 1000-1300hz, then maybe a paudio 2 incher on a 2380 cloned horn up to 8khz-9khz & then ??????????

How could it be done for a reasonable price (comparable to the JBL's)? What design concerns are there with HUGE 4-ways (assumed active)?

Let your juices flow in a mental exercise in excess - you never know, someone might build it?
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Old 24th September 2012, 07:46 PM   #2
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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The Celestion TF1020 is a fine 10" midbass/midrange at its price point with plenty of sensitivity. There was a great deal last year at Mckenzie, for 40$ each. The 16ohm version can still be had for this price at Avatarspeakers.

I don't know enough about these JBL designs to really know what to go for, but it seems like you are describing a 4-way. The Xover might end-up being a large chunk of the final expense. Most 2" compression drivers seem rather pricey, even the cheaper ones like P.Audio. Maybe an Eminence PSD:2002 could do the job well in this frequency range, especially with the TF1020 as a midrange, it plays clean much higher than where you'd cross over. Art Welter was impressed with its "low"-frequency performance (PSD:2002) and distortion figures in a recent elaborate CD shootout.

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Old 24th September 2012, 08:34 PM   #3
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRKO View Post
Let your juices flow......
better not

but I might build 150hz midbass horns
w-horn style, folded once
and huge tweeter horns on top
and a big sub or two

4 way ?
I dont know
its hard to find so many good drivers
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IG81 View Post
I don't know enough about these JBL designs to really know what to go for, but it seems like you are describing a 4-way
Yeah I thought 4-way to allow drivers to be used to their ultimate best freq range. 3-way is still cool as long as the drivers are capable of covering the bigger freq spans.

This flight of fancy is to try to have an enclosure similar to the 4355 (horizontal) & 4351 vertical)

The sheer impact & wallop of a 15incher in the bass and a 10incher in the mids seems a recipe for 'moving' music even at low volume
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4355.jpg (8.4 KB, 4845 views)
File Type: jpg 4351.jpg (18.3 KB, 4809 views)
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:59 PM   #5
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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I remember the VOT and others. Fine if you need to fill a stadium. Useless and pretty terrible sounding in a house.

The old rule of a decade still seems to be pretty sound. 20 to 200, 200 to 2K and 2K to 20K. About right for a nice 12 inch three way. The market in available drivers tends to the sub (20 to 80) a 5 to 7 inch mid-bass for 65 or so to 2K , and a 1 inch tweeter because that is 99% of the market. Really decent mids are very few. You just don't really need a 4-way in a house. Extra complication and cost for no real advantage.

Now, I am talking only about high quality sound. When I was about 14, I thought bigger was better.

The other thing I need to remind folks of. Unless you live in a stand-alone house, you can't use any bass below 50 to 60 Hz anyway without making a lot of people mad. I can't remember how many times here someone in an apartment wants to build those 15 inch subs! Low frequencies travel for miles and have no respect for the walls.
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Old 24th September 2012, 11:47 PM   #6
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I have to agree with TVR's wisdom.

But I don't think it's the wisdom of those speakers that has you salivating. You might consider a slightly scaled down version - 2 Emi Alpha12As for bass speakers, an Emi Alpha8A mid, and the Vifa BC25SC06 tweeter. The 12As need half the box volume the 15As do, the 8A will go bit higher with better dispersion than a 10", and the Vifa is well-regarded in the Stentorians. (keep in mind the JBLs were really meant for the studio, and the super tweeters were just there for judging tape hiss when layering tracks.)

But yeh, when it comes to impact, there's no substitute for size.
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:01 AM   #7
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How about a Radian 951PB + SEOS-24, atop 2X Acoustic Elegance TD10M, atop 2X Dual Opposed Faitalpro 18HP1060.


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Old 25th September 2012, 01:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
Useless and pretty terrible sounding in a house.
Not necessarily the case at all.
Quote:
I thought bigger was better.
A blanket statement but not necessarily untrue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keriwena View Post
I have to agree with TVR's wisdom.
Me too, to a point.
Quote:
But yeh, when it comes to impact, there's no substitute for size.
I knew I loved you.

Seriously though, it all comes down to the environment. No need to go beyond what is required to do the job. I realize that is somewhat subjective and you guys know that I believe in getting the job done whatever it takes when it comes to speakers. Many of you look at how I approach things and have a laugh. Not me, I'm all serious.
You can have a very nice sounding large system that you listen to at lower volumes most for the most part but is capable of stepping up to the plate when called upon. The other option, the one with the fewest compromises is to have two systems, one for critical listening and one for when you let your hair down, like Saturday night.

Tell us the dimensions of the room and any particulars about the environment and I'll tell you what I'd do.

Cheers.
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Old 25th September 2012, 01:17 AM   #9
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I own a pair of JBL 4344's and have been to a home with a pair of 4350's in the livingroom. They can sound just fine provided the room isn't a shoe box.

Rob
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Old 25th September 2012, 04:06 AM   #10
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re: "Maybe 2x 15inch Eminence drivers for bass up to 100-150hz" -that would make my juices flow, but the only prob would be the huge boxes needed. To get around this, for a while I've had at the back of my mind this idea for 2 x 15" (per side ) in sealed boxes + Linkwitz Transform...???
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