And Now For Something REALLY BIG

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Thanks tinitus. What weight represents a light cone?

The 12inch Beyma 12MI100 with Qts of 0.22 & 100dB/W@1m has an mms of 0.047Kg an fs of 58Hz.

The 12inch Dayton SD315-88 with Qts of 0.34 & 94dB/W@1m has an mms of 0.109Kg and an fs of 26.9Hz

The 15inch Dayton DVC385-88 with Qts of 0.36 & 90dB/W@1m has an mms of 0.297Kg and an fs of 19Hz

The 15inch Beyma 15MI100 with Qts of 0.28 & 101dB/W@1m has an mms of 0.072Kg and an fs of 48Hz

So the Dayton's win hands down for the given data?
 
Hi guys

I'd like to come in from the left field with my suggestion. :)

Bass: two AE Speakers 15'' bass drivers (TD15S or TD15X, maybe), or 12'' if you really can't fit the 15''-ers. Me, I'd go 15'' just for the sheer effortlessness.
Mids: either DC Gold Audio 6x9'' or 9.5'' from their Reference line. These have good dispersion high up, so not only do they sound good, but they simplify the XO design
Tweeter: LCY K100, with XO anywhere equal to or above 7kHz (the DC Gold units will handle this very easily)

Layout similar to JBLs, but with the mid slighly offset to one side (mirror-imaged).

If you want big, effortless and reasonably high efficiency (with the 9.5'' the eff will be circa 95dB/w). Just an idea. :)

Enjoy,
Deon
 
The TD15? look nice but are £382 a pair before shipping to the UK (£120ish insured) and the import taxes (£100) so £602 for a pair :gasp:

Drivers need to be easily available in the UK or Europe at farthest to make the cost more viable (% transport cost to driver cost - ie 58% of above driver cost is getting it here)

I've used both Bluearan.co.uk and europe-audio.com . They stock:

SoundLab
Monacor
Eminence
Fane
Alto
IMG Stage Line
Celestion
P Audio
Beyma
Precision Devices
Faital Pro
B&C
Dayton
Peerless
TB
Visaton
 
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The main question is - how big? How big a box or baffle can you stand? That's the limiting factor. And can you get away from the walls, or do you want a corner unit?

Two high Q 18s on open baffle are tighter than I would have ever thought. Four 18s don't have to move much to fill a medium size room.
 
This little 21" horn might work.

21hornModel.jpg


Also have drawings for same horn but 2x18"

Ingvar
 
The TD15? look nice but are £382 a pair before shipping to the UK (£120ish insured) and the import taxes (£100) so £602 for a pair :gasp:

Drivers need to be easily available in the UK or Europe at farthest to make the cost more viable (% transport cost to driver cost - ie 58% of above driver cost is getting it here)

True, but if you want the best... I know the price is steep, but I do think that even so it might be worth it.

I've used both Bluearan.co.uk and europe-audio.com . They stock:

SoundLab
Monacor
Eminence
Fane
Alto
IMG Stage Line
Celestion
P Audio
Beyma
Precision Devices
Faital Pro
B&C
Dayton
Peerless
TB
Visaton

Out of that list two names stand out to me (that is not to say the others aren't good, but these stand out to me). The two names are Precision Devices and Dayton. PD carry some very good drivers especially in their upper lines. As for Dayton, I'd look at their top-of-the-line home units. The metal cone ones. Very nice for the price, albeit not too effificient. There is one name not on your list that is also European (AFAIK), namely PHL. They also make very good drivers, and also warrant a closer look at.

Enjoy,
Deon

PS. Don't throw the DC Gold units away because they're less well known. These drivers have replaced some seriouisly well regarded drivers in some systems, and quite a few people swear by them. :)
 
The main question is - how big? How big a box.......can you stand?

Maximum I could go is 850mm wide x 500mm deep x 1400mm tall - These are max individual dims I CANT USE ALL MAXIMUMS TOGETHER (strangely that works out very near a GR box :eek:)

We have a nice unit that is 600mm wide, 480mm deep and 1200mm tall (roughly 12cuft). It seems rather pleasing in its shape although enlarging the shape in width and/or height would still be suitable

This design needs to be close to wall in back and/or side - corner placement could be interesting
 
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in UK ? why not Precision Devices

PD188 if you want highest possible SPL
or PD186 if you want lower bass
10" is a bit big for a midrange, but a Fane 10-300 might be ok
(12-300 appears to be surpricingly very well behaved)
and cheapest FaitalPro(new model) for tweeter

all top quality on a fairly low budget
but as said, you will have to go fully active
 
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Thanks for the parameters! That helps. 12 ft^3 is big and gives you lots of room to work.
Since you need to be near the wall, that leaves out Open Baffle.

Lot's of good designs and approaches to pick from. Given that size, I might go with a full size Onken (15") or the Petit Onken (12"). Just one of many good designs to choose from.
 
If you can settle for an f3 of 35 Hz or so the JBL 2226H is a driver that's hard to beat - though also a bit expensive....

Maximum I could go is 850mm wide x 500mm deep x 1400mm tall - These are max individual dims I CANT USE ALL MAXIMUMS TOGETHER (strangely that works out very near a GR box :eek:)

We have a nice unit that is 600mm wide, 480mm deep and 1200mm tall (roughly 12cuft). It seems rather pleasing in its shape although enlarging the shape in width and/or height would still be suitable

This design needs to be close to wall in back and/or side - corner placement could be interesting

I went thru this exercise a while back:). The JBL 2226 is excellent but doesn't really cover the bottom octave. Ended up with a JBL 18" in a vented box just the size you mentioned - 610mm wide 1220mm tall and sloped front that fits nicely in the corners. The JBL 2226 is in a sealed sub-compartment.
Very happy with the final solution. Can post details if you are interested.

Best wishes
David.
 
in UK ? why not Precision Devices

PD188 if you want highest possible SPL
or PD186 if you want lower bass

Especially if you're looking for a single-driver bass solution. PD makes (or used to make, not sure) two real beauts. The PD2450 was/is a 24'' magnificent monster. That will be an interesting bass solution. The other driver is one that AFAIK they still make, and that is the SD21. This is a 21'' beauty with a magnificent (in looks and function) cast basket. Both of these will give you excellent bass, and go high enough to connect with a good mid-bass/mid. Go look them up (I'd suggest looking at the SD21 first).

Enjoy,
Deon
 
and very expencive
you can get both woofers of the ones I suggested for less than one of those biggies
actually, i think two 18" will cost about half of just one of them

Agreed, but it will be a beautiful solution.

OTOH, I still stand by my idea of using a full-range as a mid-bass. This really takes a lot of headache out of the upper XO design IMHO. If not DC Gold, how about a pair of Audio Nirvana 15'' cast frame. That will a very interesting speaker. Either a single 21'' or dual 18'' bass, 15'' fullrange as midbass, and a good tweeter on top. The fullrange opens up the choice of tweeter quite a lot. I would still go with the LCY K100. Just my 0.02c. :)

Enjoy,
Deon
 
Full range I've done - or rather am doing. Still playing with the Emken, some of you have seen the thread.

This is design is a dream, that if in concept, it works well and comes to a reasonable number budget wise can be snuck past my wife :D well maybe not snuck......If I clonk her on the head I could get them in place and tell her they've been there for ages.....:p

18's? How controllable are 18's? the PD188 looks very serious! Would it dance nicely with 8w of class A power as well as several hundred class d? Is there any great advantage of the 18 over the 15?

Pano, Ive searched for the Onken but cant find dims for the 15inch version. Would the Onken give the bass immediacy & control I crave even at low levels?
 
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I'll dig up the Onken specs when I get home, if you don't find them first. Search for 360 L Onken. I like the big Onken with the Altec 416 very much. It's very tight bass, never boomy. It can tickle you like a feather, or smack you in the face. Yes, it does very well at low levels - that's one of its strong points.

The Petit Onken doesn't dive up much to its bigger brother for a much more reasonable box size.
 
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