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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 25th September 2012, 03:44 AM   #11
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Location: Mar del Plata, a BIG seasonal getaway city, can see the Ocean from our residence.
I was on a river cruise (Willamette, OR) in the late nineties, struck up a conversation with a couple, the conversation turned to music.....he was grumbling about some monster speakers that were taking up an enormous amount of space.....the speakers "inside" were broken (Rotted)......He wanted to get them 'outta' the house! I tracked down my wife & told her of the great opportunity........."Not more junk".......Needless to say I didn't track the guy down on the boat....You guessed it 4350.....He even knew the model ##

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Old 25th September 2012, 03:54 AM   #12
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Default 4350s

####### The ones with the blue grill fabric#######



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File Type: jpg JBL 4350.jpg (23.4 KB, 1526 views)
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Old 25th September 2012, 04:24 AM   #13
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
..They can sound just fine provided the room isn't a shoe box.

Rob
But it IS!

JBL 4355 speakers restored by Kenrick Sound has been delivered to Mr. Abe's room - YouTube

Ok.. not really, but it's not exactly large either.


..I don't know Japanese (at all), but I suspect the movers (just before unwrapping the 1st one) were saying something along the lines of:

"you want us to put this where?"
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Old 25th September 2012, 09:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
The old rule of a decade still seems to be pretty sound. 20 to 200, 200 to 2K and 2K to 20K. About right for a nice 12 inch three way. Really decent mids are very few.
A 3-way as described seems cool, but couldn't the use of a nice horn from 1khz-8khz or so get around the lack of decent mid drivers? (Also making a 4-way necessary)

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Originally Posted by Keriwena View Post
You might consider a slightly scaled down version - 2 Emi Alpha12As for bass speakers, an Emi Alpha8A mid, and the Vifa BC25SC06 tweeter........But yeh, when it comes to impact, there's no substitute for size.
A 'mini' version sounds cool. Is the Alpha8A good enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post
You can have a very nice sounding large system that you listen to at lower volumes most for the most part but is capable of stepping up to the plate when called upon.
That pretty much describes my ideal speaker

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Originally Posted by PeteMcK View Post
for a while I've had at the back of my mind this idea for 2 x 15" (per side ) in sealed boxes + Linkwitz Transform...???
Sounds interesting. I'll have to read up on the Linkwitz Transform.

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Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
..I don't know Japanese (at all), but I suspect the movers (just before unwrapping the 1st one) were saying something along the lines of: "you want us to put this where?"
I thought may - "You dropped over $10k for these beasties and you're using them as headphones?"

My speaker usage is odd. I on occasion take my speakers out on a day trip to a larger space for either a party or a mega listening session that I cant do at home. I think using the minidsp to cut bass etc at home and open it up when called for would be cool. So my ideal speakers could be used at home with great authority and clarity/detail at low levels but be able to open up when asked. Home listening is the priority thou for me. There's enough speaker knowhow here to shame many commercial companies. BTW guys, these are theoretical at the moment - a design exercise to see if it can be done - a large(ish) home monitor in the style of JBL.
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Last edited by JRKO; 25th September 2012 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 25th September 2012, 10:27 AM   #15
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I like the scaled down JBL 4350/4355 idea - Lets start with the bass

A single 15inch driver is cool but twin drivers (12inchers maybe) have several advantages as I understand it (or don't ) It increases sensitivity, lowers distortion and increases dynamics

All good things - All true? how would it be best executed in keeping with the brief?
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Old 25th September 2012, 11:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRKO View Post
Lets start with the bass

A single 15inch driver is cool but twin drivers (12inchers maybe) have several advantages as I understand it (or don't ) It increases sensitivity, lowers distortion and increases dynamics
one 18" is cool
2x 15" will ofcourse increase....

joke aside the advantages you list only have effect in midbass
2x 12" will have no advantage in low bass
if you want to know why, take a look at the nice looking B&C 12PS100 woofer...93db
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Old 25th September 2012, 02:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
the advantages you list only have effect in midbass
2x 12" will have no advantage in low bass
now I'm confused Can you explain? - I'm learning all the time


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Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
if you want to know why, take a look at the nice looking B&C 12PS100 woofer...93db
Eminence Beta 12------------B&C 12PS100
250w RMS--------------------700w RMS
47hz Fs-----------------------44hz Fs
0.46 Qts----------------------0.27 Qts
98dB/W@1m-----------------93dB/W@1m
4.4mm Xmax----------------8mm Xmax
45.24------------------------222.18

I can get 4 Beta 12's for less than one 12PS100. What is the REAL difference between 0.46 - 0.27 Qts? The effort is shared amongst 2 drivers so I'm asking less of an inferior driver and hopefully staying out of its danger zone. This wont overcome the Qts, but wont I have better control of the lower spec driver by pairing them up? I know a better driver is a better driver but 444 for 2 woofers is maybe a little

Would a single 'good' 15 per side be better then?
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Last edited by JRKO; 25th September 2012 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 25th September 2012, 02:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
I on occasion take my speakers out on a day trip to a larger space for either a party or a mega listening session that I cant do at home.
Build it up as modules. Do the LF as a bin with the HF up top. That's how I would do 4350's. Don't do the sideways arrangement with the mid next to the midbass driver. Do a verticle they integrate better that way. If you look at the JBL Manual for 4350's it tells you you need 8-10ft for the drivers to integrate properly.

A single 15 will work fine. You have to remember 4350's were designed for max output and power handling. They were also Bi Amp only.

Rob
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Old 25th September 2012, 02:47 PM   #19
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How about these?
15inch Beyma 15MI100 with Qts of 0.28 & 101dB/W@1m
12inch Beyma 12MI100 with Qts of 0.22 & 100dB/W@1m
15inch Dayton DVC385-88 with Qts of 0.36 & 90dB/W@1m
12inch Dayton SD315-88 with Qts of 0.34 & 94dB/W@1m
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Old 25th September 2012, 03:21 PM   #20
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It is heartening to me to see BIG is coming back!

I myself have been working on a 'big' project, though more modest than many of those presented here. I live in an average sized house with a rather small listening room, but I too want something I can listen to at low levels most the time, but that can rise to the occasion when called upon.

My plan is for a big vented box of 7.5 cu. ft. volume. The drivers are:

Eminence 4015LF 15" This is a great driver that plays low but because of a light cone is still reasonably efficient. Great xmax and a shorting ring ensure plenty of clear volume.

B&C 6MD38 6.5" The problem with a large mid is beaming at the high roll-off. This can be overcome with a 2" CD that plays low, but that can get very expensive. This mid is very well built, again with a large x-max that allows it to play down to 300 Hz while maintaining high SPL, but because of it's size plays high enough to mate comfortably with a 1" CD.

I have also purchased a pair of D220Ti's but am working on finding the right horn, currently.
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