It's an bastardized Altec "the carmel" with a pair of 414z in an open back configuration. The horn is from Jeffery Jackson's "elevenhorns" with a TAD 2001. The horn and driver are on loan from a friend, the TADs are beyond my reach. My room is pretty small, like 12'x14', and these are about 1/3 of the way into the room. They definitely move a lot of air, even open.
Currently, I'm running them first order at 800Hz but it's not the best crossover by any means. I'm waiting for minidsp to finally get my plugin code, but it's like pulling teeth. When that happens I'll biamp and play around trying to figure out where and how I best like them crossed.
Currently, I'm running them first order at 800Hz but it's not the best crossover by any means. I'm waiting for minidsp to finally get my plugin code, but it's like pulling teeth. When that happens I'll biamp and play around trying to figure out where and how I best like them crossed.
tell me about it!! 20% of the cost of the item AND the postage =
I'm gonna plug some numbers from a few of the proposed drivers into the onken calc to see if I can get lucky on the vents
ok - ive tried with a FP driver and an PD driver and I cant get any sensible. Tiny boxes being projected - 80l or so not including vents. I dont get it. I'm not even sure that I can enter the Sd values correctly.
Anyone out there with a non Altec Onken? Or does anyone have a couple of brain cells I can borrow? I have the feeling I'm being a bit thick
Would a simple sealed or vented arrangement be suitable instead, without loosing the magic?
Anyone out there with a non Altec Onken? Or does anyone have a couple of brain cells I can borrow? I have the feeling I'm being a bit thick
Would a simple sealed or vented arrangement be suitable instead, without loosing the magic?
tell me about it!! 20% of the cost of the item AND the postage =
I'm gonna plug some numbers from a few of the proposed drivers into the onken calc to see if I can get lucky on the vents
I've mail ordered some t-shirts from the US once. They charged me 17% import duty and 20% VAT on top of that!
Never had much luck with Onken calculators.
Tried it with my Tannoys and my Volt woofers, the result was tiny cabs with vents over a meter long.
Never quite figured out what makes a driver suitable for Onkens.
The Volts are in transmission lines now and I couldn't be happier!
They are fairly big though but that should not be a problem for you.
Glad I'm not the only one.
The altecs seem to have a low Fs (26hz ish) and MASSIVE Vas of 26cuft or 736l
Makes them a rather tough act to follow.options options options
Glad I'm not the only one.
The altecs seem to have a low Fs (26hz ish) and MASSIVE Vas of 26cuft or 736l
options options options
your main problem may be that low Qts will never be low budget
try calculate Onken with PD.158 or PD.122
and you need to fiddle with port area and length to make it match your box front
I dont think ports should be less than 1" wide
and also adjust with the 'deviders' also working as side panel bracing
The Onken is a bass reflex. You don't have to take the box size for BR that a calculator gives you, it's just trying to find the flattest response. EBS (Extended Bass Shelf) is another way to align the cab. If you can run Unibox (in Excel) have a look at that.
Yes, the old driver have huge Vas, and that's part of what makes them work in the big Onken/Ultraflex box.
But let's back up a little. What are your real goals? Are you looking for super clean bass that can be run off an SET amp, or do you just want big bass fun? Lots of driver surface area, like 1 or 2 18s per side will get you big bass fun and stay real clean at the power levels used in a home. Once you start to get a lot of surface area, the bass gets clean and big. You might need to EQ it some if the box is too small, but you'll have so much headroom that isn't a big deal.
Yes, the old driver have huge Vas, and that's part of what makes them work in the big Onken/Ultraflex box.
But let's back up a little. What are your real goals? Are you looking for super clean bass that can be run off an SET amp, or do you just want big bass fun? Lots of driver surface area, like 1 or 2 18s per side will get you big bass fun and stay real clean at the power levels used in a home. Once you start to get a lot of surface area, the bass gets clean and big. You might need to EQ it some if the box is too small, but you'll have so much headroom that isn't a big deal.
I want super fast ,clean & accurate bass with no overhang. I'm not into bloated booming playing with your guts bass. To me thats just for the hell of it and not 'music'. Certainly not the music I listen to.
I'm a fan of large headroom. All seems fine and then when you turn it up just a bit too much it grabs you by the throat, shakes you around and spits you out.
The overall sound I want is that sumptuous effortless you get when operating comfortably within spec and with an iron grip by the amp. Like the acceleration in a big car that gently pushes you back into the soft leather seat as it approaches warp speed compared to a small car that is all whizzy and you have to wring the nuts off it.
I think high efficiency is one part of 'my sound'. I'd prefer speed and attack over ultimate depth if I have to choose.
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In my experience you can get that with lot's of surface area using cone drivers. Mostly I've done that with Open Baffle, but you don't have the floor space for that, right?
Certainly there are folks here who have done massive cone surface in a box and can advise you. Stig Eric comes quickly to mind. One you get to the surface area of a pair of 18s, or better yet a quad of 18s, bass firms right up and gets massive and clean. Even cheap 18s will do it.
Certainly there are folks here who have done massive cone surface in a box and can advise you. Stig Eric comes quickly to mind. One you get to the surface area of a pair of 18s, or better yet a quad of 18s, bass firms right up and gets massive and clean. Even cheap 18s will do it.
one part out of many
what you descibe certainly wont come easy
and from my personal experience, the sound you dream of, and descibe, mostly depends on the crossover design being fully integrated into the complete speaker design
thats what its all about, the rest is secondary
Most will not - unless it's a huge horn - some will. That's what I liked about the P.Audio Blue Monster (BM) woofers. Now that they have changed all bets are off. There should be a good stock of the old ones on the shelves, yet.
Someone here is likely to know a good 18 that can cross high. If not, an 8 or 10 inch midrange can work well.
and interestingly, it might work with Onken ports
optimal BR is somewhere around 275 liter, and port length is almost zero
means you can raise port area quite a lot, and still keep the length reasonable
I tried to increase box to 350 liter
and calculate a 500cm2 port area
gives perfect port length of 25cm
fine tune a bit for more smooth rolloff
and voila, a new Onken is born (-3db/30hz)
man, now Im tempted myself
one problem though
this big Onken box size is only suited for 2way
simply too high for a 3way
nah, I dont think it will work
but wide and low BR with big slot ports would still work
optimal BR is somewhere around 275 liter, and port length is almost zero
means you can raise port area quite a lot, and still keep the length reasonable
I tried to increase box to 350 liter
and calculate a 500cm2 port area
gives perfect port length of 25cm
fine tune a bit for more smooth rolloff
and voila, a new Onken is born (-3db/30hz)
man, now Im tempted myself
one problem though
this big Onken box size is only suited for 2way
simply too high for a 3way
nah, I dont think it will work
but wide and low BR with big slot ports would still work
But you do.
This kind of dipole bass can be placed against the front wall, too.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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