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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

And Now For Something REALLY BIG
And Now For Something REALLY BIG
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Old 25th September 2012, 06:41 PM   #31
JRKO is offline JRKO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badman View Post
Big speakers unleash the music. Little speakers constrain it.
Amen
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Old 25th September 2012, 06:41 PM   #32
ingvar ahlberg is offline ingvar ahlberg  Sweden
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The driver is Faital HF104, an annular ring driver, memebrane manufactured in in Ketone, Faitals propriety polymer, reputedly made out of equal parts green cryptonite, catshair and turkish yoghurt, flare is also Faital, their smallest tractrix, STH 100.

Click the image to open in full size.

Measurements are somewhere around here, ill look and post.

Aim, thou, was to walk a bit further, 2x8" is about the same area as one 12" which i originally designed the RLK horn for, driver in designprocess was Beyma 12P80Nd but has since changed to Beyma Liberty8, the magical recreation of JBL L120, just better in all respects but one, higher build quality, lower Fs, lower Qts, lower sensitivity thou, only102dB.

This driver in the RLK horn is the speaker most true to music ive ever heard, dynamics, low or high level is utterly stupefying, mind You, im partial here, i designed it, but its not a comercial design, drawings are free for anyone who wants them.

Ingvar
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Old 25th September 2012, 06:47 PM   #33
JRKO is offline JRKO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keriwena View Post
When the cone size greatly exceeds the voice coil diameter there's an inevitable loss of control, i.e., distortion arises. The answer is make the cone thicker...........

So, for deep bass, there is no substitute for diameter, as increasing excursion is fraught with problems. (I've only mentioned cone breakup; there are also doppler effects, Xmax limits, port chuffing, etc.)
Isn't thermal compression another issue, driving less efficient speakers with more and more power to achieve the same as an efficient driver can with 100W?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keriwena View Post
For a reasonable compromise, I suggest a low end target of 40Hz, which is low enough for most music, given that we interpret lows by their overtones. For this, at volumes that don't require ear protection, two 12s will suffice, and will maintain the look of the big JBLs. Strictly speaking, one 15 or two vertical 12s would be better, but if we use a good (full-range?) mid, we can cross over low enough to negate the extra width.

Arguments against?
Thanks for you input and getting us back on track Keriwena!!

So how do the Eminence Beta 12's look? Would the 4351 be a better arrangement?

I wound not be averse to a single 15 if it better suits the end result
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Old 25th September 2012, 07:02 PM   #34
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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And Now For Something REALLY BIG
I thought John Busch's "Widow Makers" with 2x18" drivers per side on Open Baffle sounded wonderful. I'll see if I can find pix when I get home. Very strong, very clean, very deep. Also very big.
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Old 25th September 2012, 07:39 PM   #35
pblossom is offline pblossom  United States
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Default This would be really big...

ULTIMATE

I have Altec A7-500's. My favorite, so far.
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Old 25th September 2012, 07:44 PM   #36
SY is offline SY  United States
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And Now For Something REALLY BIG
Then there's the infamous Drew Daniels JBL array... always wanted to try that just to see if this was finally the horn speaker I could stand to listen to.
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Old 25th September 2012, 08:42 PM   #37
Vix is offline Vix  Yugoslavia
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Or, to keep it simple, one can try a Bigger Badder BIB with a single Eminence 12lta
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Old 26th September 2012, 09:09 AM   #38
JRKO is offline JRKO
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Default Building the foundation - BASS FIRST

Thanks for chiming in guys. I'm aiming for 'the best we can do for reasonable outlay' multiway speaker in the vein of JBL and Altec for immediacy, delicacy, visceral, tangible, iron fist in the velvet glove sound

I dont mind going with horns (multicellular or CD) or staying with standard drivers to achieve the goal.

Right now I'm concentrating on the bass section.

Dual 12's have been tabled, also a single 15 per side. Any input on the drivers noted above or others you think are suitable (within sensible $ range) along with alignment options? Will a Klipsch horn/Bass bin (Altec side of the design brief being satisfied here!!) give impact along with depth & control or would a vented/IB design be better?
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Last edited by JRKO; 26th September 2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 26th September 2012, 09:19 AM   #39
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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And Now For Something REALLY BIG
basicly, for the bass, stay away from cheap woofers with light cone(mms) and high output
also usually have highish Qts above 0.4, despite a relatively big heavy magnet
it indicates a large magnet gap to ease production
but leads to poor control and distortion

but if suggested to look at Fs no higher than 30-35hz, all those woofers would be closed out automaticly

and be prepared to go fully actice, or forget about it
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Old 26th September 2012, 10:17 AM   #40
Brett is offline Brett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRKO View Post
The sheer impact & wallop of a 15incher in the bass and a 10incher in the mids seems a recipe for 'moving' music even at low volume
I agree. The JBL based (2225, 2123, DE250+Ewaves) 3 way I threw together a couple of years back was a ripper, much better than the KEF 104/2 I also had at the time. It was a fun project before I bought a new apartment and ran out of money. I'm now using Acoustic Elegance drivers in the same format for my surrounds, which I hope to have finished by the end of October.

Some waveguides worth looking at are the SEOS from Autotech or diysoundgroup in the US. I'll be using these (SEOS12) in the surrounds.
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