This would be quite a bold project, but I wonder if any of you horn lovers have considered designing your whole darn house around your horns?
The idea occurred to me because of a few reasons:
#1 - I am 41 years old, and getting to an age where I don't want to live in a 'modern' house. I find that when you have a modern home and decor, it looks ultra-dated in the span of 5-10 years. That's great when you're 25 and shopping at Target, but not-so-great when you're 41 and you have ten year old furniture that was cheap when you bought it. (IE, I'm starting to think about investing in some serious furniture pieces.)
#2 - I live in the Pacific Northwest, and there are a gazilliion of these houses available for cheap. But I've noticed that they're going fast. And I've noticed that most of the people that buy them rip out the original decor, and replace it with the ubiquitous "granite countertops / new kitchen cabinets / laminate flooring." In other words, they take a house that's sixty years old, and try to make it look like a cookie-cutter new home.
#3 - If constructed carefully, I think some of these old horns can actually complement the decor of a fifty year old home.
And by far, the main reason I'm considering this is simple. My beloved Gedlee Summas are languishing in the garage, because they're just too big and too incongruent with the decor in my home. And I like my stereo so much, I wouldn't rule out buying a whole darn house and going retro with the decor, just so I can have a big set of horns which blends with the home.
Thoughts? Am I nuts? Am I the only person that can't get a set of horns to work in the living room?
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The idea occurred to me because of a few reasons:
#1 - I am 41 years old, and getting to an age where I don't want to live in a 'modern' house. I find that when you have a modern home and decor, it looks ultra-dated in the span of 5-10 years. That's great when you're 25 and shopping at Target, but not-so-great when you're 41 and you have ten year old furniture that was cheap when you bought it. (IE, I'm starting to think about investing in some serious furniture pieces.)
#2 - I live in the Pacific Northwest, and there are a gazilliion of these houses available for cheap. But I've noticed that they're going fast. And I've noticed that most of the people that buy them rip out the original decor, and replace it with the ubiquitous "granite countertops / new kitchen cabinets / laminate flooring." In other words, they take a house that's sixty years old, and try to make it look like a cookie-cutter new home.
#3 - If constructed carefully, I think some of these old horns can actually complement the decor of a fifty year old home.
And by far, the main reason I'm considering this is simple. My beloved Gedlee Summas are languishing in the garage, because they're just too big and too incongruent with the decor in my home. And I like my stereo so much, I wouldn't rule out buying a whole darn house and going retro with the decor, just so I can have a big set of horns which blends with the home.
Thoughts? Am I nuts? Am I the only person that can't get a set of horns to work in the living room?
Oh, I should clarify, when I say 'design the home around the speaker' I mean buying a home to house a set of speakers, not tearing out walls, etc.
While I like the idea of soffit mounted Unity horns, a la William Cowan, I was thinking something more along the lines of Jadis:
Particularly since a design like this could complement the decor, particularly if the entire house (or at least the room) is a throwback to the 1950s / 1960s
While I like the idea of soffit mounted Unity horns, a la William Cowan, I was thinking something more along the lines of Jadis:
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Particularly since a design like this could complement the decor, particularly if the entire house (or at least the room) is a throwback to the 1950s / 1960s
If I had the cash and the space I'd soffit-mount my speakers and cover them with aesthetically pleasing, acoustically transparent material.
This would also mean that baffle step correction becomes unnecessary making the xover design infinitely easier.
PS: The bottom three pictures look like examples of really bad listening rooms.
This would also mean that baffle step correction becomes unnecessary making the xover design infinitely easier.
PS: The bottom three pictures look like examples of really bad listening rooms.
Bottom line "Your nuts." Get those speakers out of the garage and hide them like I do. Then this whole agonizing discussion becomes moot.
John, I think that you know that I live in quite an upscale home, my furniture is all Skandinavian Teak, not "cheap" stuff. The seating is all leather. No my speakers, nor any other speakers, go with this kind of decor. But I am not about to match my speakers to the decor - thats admitting total defeat - so I hide mine. They cannot be seen and I love it this way. I even think that it makes them sound better because I never get distracted looking at the speakers (which is what you tend to do if they are visible.) You are very much where I was years ago when my income afforded a nice aboad. I solved the problem and I've never looked back. I keep telling people this, but somehow everyone thinks that the speakers need to be visible. Thats simply not true in the least.
Of course if your speakers are furniture with drivers in them, as almost everything these days is, then your not going to want to hide them. But then that speaks volumes for the place we are in audio today.
God I hope you get through this without giving up!
This is good info.
The house I lived in when I bought my Summas was quite large - about 2800'
I am likely moving closer to the city, and the upper limit is likely around 1500', maybe 2000'
At these sizes, I think you have three options:
#1 - find a home with a basement, build a home theater
#2 - find a home with a big lot, build a detached home theater
#3 - find some speakers that 'fit' with the decor
#4 - stick the speakers in a room that's too small. For instance, a pair of Summas in a spare bedroom is more 'criminal' than leaving them in the garage, IMHO. They really need some space to image properly. The other day I was working on my laptop in a coffee shop that was quite large, and they were using a $100 set of craptastic speakers, and it was interesting how good those speakers imaged in a big room with no early reflections. (The coffee shop was a big loft, and there wasn't a single reflection with 5' of the loudspeakers.)
I can see how options one and two are the most ideal. Build the room around the speakers.
But I'm also a fan of the 'hiding in plain sight' approach. I think that the person that has Gedlee Nathans in New York City took that approach, IIRC his speaker stands are a lot more handsome than mine, and that helps a lot. Plus, the Nathans have a much much smaller footprint than the Summas.
The house I lived in when I bought my Summas was quite large - about 2800'
I am likely moving closer to the city, and the upper limit is likely around 1500', maybe 2000'
At these sizes, I think you have three options:
#1 - find a home with a basement, build a home theater
#2 - find a home with a big lot, build a detached home theater
#3 - find some speakers that 'fit' with the decor
#4 - stick the speakers in a room that's too small. For instance, a pair of Summas in a spare bedroom is more 'criminal' than leaving them in the garage, IMHO. They really need some space to image properly. The other day I was working on my laptop in a coffee shop that was quite large, and they were using a $100 set of craptastic speakers, and it was interesting how good those speakers imaged in a big room with no early reflections. (The coffee shop was a big loft, and there wasn't a single reflection with 5' of the loudspeakers.)
I can see how options one and two are the most ideal. Build the room around the speakers.
But I'm also a fan of the 'hiding in plain sight' approach. I think that the person that has Gedlee Nathans in New York City took that approach, IIRC his speaker stands are a lot more handsome than mine, and that helps a lot. Plus, the Nathans have a much much smaller footprint than the Summas.
#2 - find a home with a big lot, build a detached home theater.
That's probably the coolest idea, if I had the means, that's probably what I'd do. I've been working on a theater / media room in the basement and while it's coming along nicely, I still find myself nervous about floods..either natural or from burst plumbing.
Building an annex to the house where I could oversee or even do a great deal of the construction myself, built to a perfect size I think would be ideal.
That's probably the coolest idea, if I had the means, that's probably what I'd do. I've been working on a theater / media room in the basement and while it's coming along nicely, I still find myself nervous about floods..either natural or from burst plumbing.
Building an annex to the house where I could oversee or even do a great deal of the construction myself, built to a perfect size I think would be ideal.
Simple - just hang up a curtain. Hardly anyone notices.
Couple of points:
-the curtain needs to be sheer so that makes it also optically transparent so behind it must be dark or you will see through it.
- because there is a curtain, you can now literalyy fill the space behind the speakers and the curtain with absorbing material. I have found that this does wonders for imaging. There is no reflections coming from behind the speakers - none.
So there are some limitations to what you can do, but it seems to me that you can usually find some end of a room where you can place the speakers and then hang a curtain. But quite often homes are designed so as to not have such places. Worst case though is that you have to give up a window - thats usually the problem, but thats not a serious modification if you just cover it up. While I did make the theater in the basement I still did have to cover up a window that is behind the curtain.
John
So your problem is not really one that I understood at first. You are going smaller and thats possing some problems. Understandable. Small is always an issue. But there is no solution to the speaker problem that goes smaller - bigger is always better (given comparable base designs). Abbeys are MUCH smaller than Summas but extremely close in sound quality (which is why I don't sell Summas anymore). Nathans are MUCH smaller again, but do give up some sound quality. Harpers don't really cut-it as stereo speakers although in a pinch they have been used for that. When it comes to size its all tradeoffs.
Couple of points:
-the curtain needs to be sheer so that makes it also optically transparent so behind it must be dark or you will see through it.
- because there is a curtain, you can now literalyy fill the space behind the speakers and the curtain with absorbing material. I have found that this does wonders for imaging. There is no reflections coming from behind the speakers - none.
So there are some limitations to what you can do, but it seems to me that you can usually find some end of a room where you can place the speakers and then hang a curtain. But quite often homes are designed so as to not have such places. Worst case though is that you have to give up a window - thats usually the problem, but thats not a serious modification if you just cover it up. While I did make the theater in the basement I still did have to cover up a window that is behind the curtain.
John
So your problem is not really one that I understood at first. You are going smaller and thats possing some problems. Understandable. Small is always an issue. But there is no solution to the speaker problem that goes smaller - bigger is always better (given comparable base designs). Abbeys are MUCH smaller than Summas but extremely close in sound quality (which is why I don't sell Summas anymore). Nathans are MUCH smaller again, but do give up some sound quality. Harpers don't really cut-it as stereo speakers although in a pinch they have been used for that. When it comes to size its all tradeoffs.
Keep in mind, I'm completely nuts (hence the pseudonym.)
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But I always thought a bomb shelter would make a nice home theater, especially here in the PNW. Here's why:
#1 - If you had a dedicated detached home theater, the sound of the subs would likely 'carry' in to the neighborhood. Same problem that the car audio guys have when they have big subs in their car, it annoys the whole 'hood.
#2 - Here in the Pacific Northwest, it's very hilly. So instead of building a bomb shelter underground, you can simply 'carve' it into the side of a hill. Just go down to your local tool rental place and rent some excavating equipment for a weekend. Definitely cheaper/easier/safer than building a 2400 cubic foot hole in the backyard.
#3 - No need for permits. Where I'm at, you can build up to 250' without a permit. That's the size of a one-car garage. (Obviously, check with your local city hall.) The big drawback to not using a permit is that you basically can't have any electrical outlets. Might be able to sidestep this via the use of a solar panel, and have the theater run off 12V.
#4 - epic bass. Bass efficiency improves a lot with solid walls. When I used to have my stereo in a basement with concrete walls and floors, it sounded completely different.
#5 - Potentially add value to the house. Besides the fact that future owners could use the space for storage, there's definitely a few people who might pay a premium for a house with a bomb shelter / safe room / etc. I know it's kind of tinfoil hat, but if you look at the ratings for Alex Jones, you'll see there are a lot of people that are into this stuff!
Here's a site with some plans. Cost is about $20K for a 240' bomb shelter, just a hair under the 250' maximum.
Underground bunker kit - build your own bomb shelter!
Haha, yeah, every time I see your avatar, the scene where he's explaining Phil Collins and Genesis floats through my mind.
The bomb shelter would be pretty awesome, built into the side of a hill, like a Hobbit hole audio room.
The other bonus besides rigid walls might be climate as well, being mostly underground would be a fairly stable temperature without much control.
The bomb shelter would be pretty awesome, built into the side of a hill, like a Hobbit hole audio room.
The other bonus besides rigid walls might be climate as well, being mostly underground would be a fairly stable temperature without much control.
If I were going for a dedicated room I would have corner flush mounted speakers and a double bass array. Decoupled from everything. I don't know how powerful amps you like to use but the fans in PA amps are annoying and some kind of dedicated room for those would be a welcome addition, could also be used as part of IB setup.
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Problem would be the same one that I have. Its fine when only few people are in the room, but when it gets loaded up the heat goes very high very fast. It takes a lot of air to keep this from happening. That or don't let friends come by.
Retro decor, swimming pool *and* a bomb shelter:
22420 PHILIPRIMM St, Woodland Hills, CA 91367 | MLS# F12111559 | Redfin
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22420 PHILIPRIMM St, Woodland Hills, CA 91367 | MLS# F12111559 | Redfin
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If you purchase a 80" Sharp LED Flat Panel TV your Summa speakers will be the correct size. Just add a couple Ficus trees for organic content and a couple comfortable cloth sofas to make your family and friends feel at home.
Family + Friends = meaning of life.
Retro decor, swimming pool *and* a bomb shelter:
22420 PHILIPRIMM St, Woodland Hills, CA 91367 | MLS# F12111559 | Redfin
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That's a beautiful home.
Oh snap, the listing is in pending, what have you done!
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