Tang Band W5-704 and a TB ceramic tweeter - Page 7

imagios · 16th October 2012, 01:29 PM

OK here we go, new simulation after some work,....
its 2x 3rd Order BW + a Zobel at the tweeter
(I hope so many components will not kill the sound quality)

imagios · 17th October 2012, 09:37 AM

OK I have redone the simulation and reduced it to one 2nd order BW and one third order BW, instead of a Zobel with just a resistor, here is the result...

What do you think is better?

imagios · 24th October 2012, 11:21 AM

if no one has a answer, then I thik I will go for the second option, without the Zobel

stinems · 24th October 2012, 01:59 PM

Imagios, show us a screenshot of your crossover component values shown to the left of your charts in the PCD spreadsheet. Also, turn on the "driver phase" option in your charts so that we can see both driver's phase tracking.
This will help us help you

In both cases, you'll probably want a bit more protection on the tweeter. Move the crossover point higher. For nearfield monitors, I agree that you'll want to keep it low. It does look like a robust tweeter but 1100hz with and no waveguide is just too low, if I had to guess. Start at perhaps 1600hz and go from there. The high pass filter will cooperate better as you get away from the resonance too.

In addition to that...

In the first option, I notice that the tweeter's response is higher than system net response at the crossover point. This means you have some weird phase issues (cancellation). The Q of the high pass filter is too high, and your tweeter will probably not like the stored energy at the bottom of its frequency range.

In the second one without zobel, the broad hump in response centered at 1.7khz may turn out to be fatiguing to listen to.

Lastly, if you're not already using them, I'll encourage you to use the target slope functions of PCD. That allows you freedom to tweak crossover values for the acoustic target and not get bogged down by "butterworth", "bessel", "LR" on your passive electrical side of things. The acoustic rolloff is what matters. A 3rd order BW acoustic slope at a given frequency does not always need 3 components; some drivers need 2 and others need 6. You may understand this already, I'm just trying to help

Cheers,
Sam

arjank · 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagios

At this moment I really don´t know what to do, its like I would measure a totally different driver. There must be a error in the measurement, I can not imagine TB would have such a difference between the datasheet and reality...
I´m open for suggestions, any one having similar experience?

I'm just chimin' in so I haven't read the whole thread.
Did you break in the drivers? Maybe it's a silly question because I guess you allreay know you have to do that to accuratly measure the mid/woofers.
Did you use the "added mass" method to determine the Vas?

Edit:
I just saw that I started at page 3(thought that it was the last page, haha)

imagios · 25th October 2012, 07:17 AM

OK to make it simple here is the link to the modified crossover designer with the parts and everything:
http://hex.dan.sweb.cz/TBBookshelf/P...7%20(2007).zip
I played around with the parts but this gave me the best responce...
for the midwoofer:

Selected Filter: L2 mH 1,40
Second Order Parallel C2 uF 35

and this for the tweeter:

Selected Filter Order: C9 uF 11,00
Third Order Parallel L9 mH 0,8
C10 uF 93
+ Series Resistor 4Ohms

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16th October 2012, 01:29 PM	#61
imagios diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: prague	OK here we go, new simulation after some work,.... its 2x 3rd Order BW + a Zobel at the tweeter (I hope so many components will not kill the sound quality)

17th October 2012, 09:37 AM	#62
imagios diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: prague	OK I have redone the simulation and reduced it to one 2nd order BW and one third order BW, instead of a Zobel with just a resistor, here is the result... What do you think is better?

24th October 2012, 11:21 AM	#63
imagios diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: prague	if no one has a answer, then I thik I will go for the second option, without the Zobel

24th October 2012, 01:59 PM	#64
stinems diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2007	Imagios, show us a screenshot of your crossover component values shown to the left of your charts in the PCD spreadsheet. Also, turn on the "driver phase" option in your charts so that we can see both driver's phase tracking. This will help us help you In both cases, you'll probably want a bit more protection on the tweeter. Move the crossover point higher. For nearfield monitors, I agree that you'll want to keep it low. It does look like a robust tweeter but 1100hz with and no waveguide is just too low, if I had to guess. Start at perhaps 1600hz and go from there. The high pass filter will cooperate better as you get away from the resonance too. In addition to that... In the first option, I notice that the tweeter's response is higher than system net response at the crossover point. This means you have some weird phase issues (cancellation). The Q of the high pass filter is too high, and your tweeter will probably not like the stored energy at the bottom of its frequency range. In the second one without zobel, the broad hump in response centered at 1.7khz may turn out to be fatiguing to listen to. Lastly, if you're not already using them, I'll encourage you to use the target slope functions of PCD. That allows you freedom to tweak crossover values for the acoustic target and not get bogged down by "butterworth", "bessel", "LR" on your passive electrical side of things. The acoustic rolloff is what matters. A 3rd order BW acoustic slope at a given frequency does not always need 3 components; some drivers need 2 and others need 6. You may understand this already, I'm just trying to help Cheers, Sam

25th October 2012, 07:17 AM	#66
imagios diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: prague	OK to make it simple here is the link to the modified crossover designer with the parts and everything: http://hex.dan.sweb.cz/TBBookshelf/P...7%20(2007).zip I played around with the parts but this gave me the best responce... for the midwoofer: Selected Filter: L2 mH 1,40 Second Order Parallel C2 uF 35 and this for the tweeter: Selected Filter Order: C9 uF 11,00 Third Order Parallel L9 mH 0,8 C10 uF 93 + Series Resistor 4Ohms