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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 11th October 2012, 08:45 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_teeth View Post
Textbook equations will not get you a good sounding speaker.

Later,
Wolf
Combined with good measurements and an understanding of what you are doing, they will get you a long way.
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Old 11th October 2012, 05:00 PM   #42
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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Well Im trying to understand the crossovers, but still I dont think I will be able to get it done without help...
I hope someone here i willing to help me, building the right cross over.

If the midbass goes nice up to 5kHz and the tweeter has a FS of 700hz, would not just a simple first order BW be sufficient, just one inductor and one capacitor? Or would still -3db be too much for a safe crossing of the tweeter?
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Old 11th October 2012, 08:49 PM   #43
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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OK after playing around with the Passive Crossover sheet, I got this, Click the image to open in full size.
its a 2,5kHz second order BW crossover, as you can see it has a nasty peak down at 3kHz, and I really have no idea how to get that better...
Im open for oppinons.
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Old 12th October 2012, 09:17 AM   #44
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Before playing with PCD, you have to read this: FRD Consortium tools guide
Ralf
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Old 12th October 2012, 11:26 AM   #45
Allstar is offline Allstar  United Kingdom
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Imagios, I just went through the same thing. Steep learning curve for me, but reading the page linked above by giralfino and just about anything else I could find on crossover design and the use of PCD I believe I have gotten somewhere reasonably close to a decent crossover ( we'll see ! ).

This page

https://sites.google.com/site/undefi...d-measurements

describes some important steps prior to loading .frd and .zma files into Passive Crossover Designer. Not everything there is relevant to you such as the starting part about tracing graphs, but the part about using Frequency Response Modeller should be.

Another thing off the top of my head, did you enter in the relative acoustic centre offset between the woofer and tweeter in PCD ? It can have a significant impact on the crossover particularly with regards to phase and the way the two drivers combine.

I'm not comfortable giving advice as I'm just a beginner too, but I hope some of that at least leads you in the right direction.
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Old 12th October 2012, 05:40 PM   #46
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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Thanks for the advice, the crossover is really the most complex part...at least for me.
I still have a lot of issues with all the SW from the net always something seems not to work.
PCD is crashing, FRD as well, might be my windows 7 and office 2010

Never the less I played around with the most easy setting, here is the result of just two first order crossovers, giving a +/- 1 db on the whole spectrum
(Still the main question and the big one is, would the tweeter survive just a first order crossover? Although the cross over freq. in this case is more than 10x his Fs)
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 12th October 2012, 10:13 PM   #47
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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adding just one point, since my amp is 8 and 4 Ohms, I consider to wire in series, since the calculation of the lowest impendancies of both drivers in parallel went on the edge for the amp.
According to the simple simulations it really seems I could do it with only one cap and one inductor. (sure a Zobel would smooth it up, but should I tomorrow get the cap and inductor, that might be the right start
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Old 13th October 2012, 10:58 AM   #48
Dissi is offline Dissi  Switzerland
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Hi Imagios,

I don't know if the tweeter will survive, but I know it will make large excursions at 700 Hz and reach the limit at moderate listening levels. Therefore I would not go for a first order and choose a classic 2nd order filter at 2.2 kHz.

The peak down in your first diagram occurs, because the sound of woofer and tweeter have opposite phase and cancel. The usual fix is to reverse the tweeter polarity.

I don't think the simulations are right. The drivers seem to have a flat frequency response till infinity. You will get better results, if you import a .frd data file!

Good luck
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Old 13th October 2012, 04:13 PM   #49
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissi View Post
Hi Imagios,

I don't know if the tweeter will survive, but I know it will make large excursions at 700 Hz and reach the limit at moderate listening levels. Therefore I would not go for a first order and choose a classic 2nd order filter at 2.2 kHz.

The peak down in your first diagram occurs, because the sound of woofer and tweeter have opposite phase and cancel. The usual fix is to reverse the tweeter polarity.

I don't think the simulations are right. The drivers seem to have a flat frequency response till infinity. You will get better results, if you import a .frd data file!

Good luck
OK in the mean time I just already put the box together for testing, fortunately the tweeter survived
series wiring did not gave the good sound as parallel so the box is now running with a first order BW cross over, that means inside the box ist just the coil and cap, and well even without stuffing it sound quite good.
I have no measuring instrument to measure the responce, I did not closed the box, the back site is not glued so I can easily make changes, the cross over is definately not final, but, I must say Im quite impressed by the sound they give...
I dont even now have the bassreflex vent as improvisation the tooilet paper core is inside any way my first self made self designed speaker (with a lot of help from all of you )
I will keep you updated, and ask further with the crossover design that would fit...
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Old 14th October 2012, 12:46 PM   #50
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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0k here is the update,
the speakers should be already settled, so how do they play now, honestly flat, the treble is just too aggressive, it has some fatigue to listen to them. There one certain sound producing a bad distortion, its very rare I dont know the frequency but its there.
The trebble need to go about 3db lower, I played on the EQ even with 6db less and still they where very present. Till the bassreflex arrives, I just conected them to my PC sub. and now with the sub, it has too much bass, even when I set the bass at the sub to minimum... but for PC its OK.
So next step will really be the redesign of the crossover.
Here a pic. how it look right nowClick the image to open in full size.
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