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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 10th September 2012, 07:51 AM   #21
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I like them crossed over around 1800, but my testing is far from conclusive at this time.

gornir if you didn't buy them new you probably didn't get the slip of paper that comes with them.

It basically says 11 teeth is the best distance for subjective performance and 13 teeth is the best measured performance.

Not sure what that equates to in length without going to the shed and getting a tape measure.

Not sure if the foam pad makes any difference but mine came with a more rounded bit of foam....

Last edited by Silent Screamer; 10th September 2012 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 10th September 2012, 12:07 PM   #22
gornir is offline gornir  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Screamer View Post
I like them crossed over around 1800, but my testing is far from conclusive at this time.

gornir if you didn't buy them new you probably didn't get the slip of paper that comes with them.

It basically says 11 teeth is the best distance for subjective performance and 13 teeth is the best measured performance.

Not sure what that equates to in length without going to the shed and getting a tape measure.

Not sure if the foam pad makes any difference but mine came with a more rounded bit of foam....
Thanks for the info!

I wasn't aware of that slip of paper.

11 teeth = 5cm (This was my DP2 measurement setting)
13 teeth = 4cm
15 teeth = 3cm (This was my DP3 measurement setting)

The 5cm setting is the one I will use when going further with the construction measurements, but I will try the 4cm setting as well.

My foam pads are rounded, but the pictures doesn't show it correctly.

I've attached a new picture of my pads.

A cross-over @ 1800Hz feels scary low, but I guess it might work if its crossed over steep and the listening SPL is moderate.

Also different people tend to be more or less sensitive to certain distortion. I think there isn't a black or white solution here.

Use your best measuring equipment you have -- your ears! and trust them.

Regards

/Göran
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Old 10th September 2012, 12:35 PM   #23
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As I say the results are far from being conclusive... They aren't even based on any kind of measurement. Once I have them properly set up I can then give them the serious consideration the deserve, but for now they seem to sound better at the low end of town, but who knows once they are facing in the right direction. Yes they are the same pads as the ones I got.
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Old 10th September 2012, 01:21 PM   #24
gornir is offline gornir  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Screamer View Post
As I say the results are far from being conclusive... They aren't even based on any kind of measurement. Once I have them properly set up I can then give them the serious consideration the deserve, but for now they seem to sound better at the low end of town, but who knows once they are facing in the right direction. Yes they are the same pads as the ones I got.
Thanks again for the info!

They calculated the teeth a bit different than I did.

I calculated from the edge of the ribbon, while they did it between the pads.

Anyhow my DP2 setting (5cm) have 12 teeth between the pads the way RAAL suggests.

Seems quite optimal to me and conforms with my own measurements.

Regards

/Göran
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Old 10th September 2012, 02:50 PM   #25
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Very interesting project! If the damn drivers weren't so expensive I would consider the build myself...
Anyway keep up the good work!!!
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Old 10th September 2012, 07:23 PM   #26
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Wow, thanks for the detailed measurements, it sure helps explain why people prefer them crossed higher rather then lower. I had always assumed that the 70-10 would be happy crossed at around 3k, but these tests would make me think otherwise.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the measurements/build
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Old 10th September 2012, 07:37 PM   #27
gornir is offline gornir  Sweden
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Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
Wow, thanks for the detailed measurements, it sure helps explain why people prefer them crossed higher rather then lower. I had always assumed that the 70-10 would be happy crossed at around 3k, but these tests would make me think otherwise.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the measurements/build
Thank you!

Hopefully I have the time to publish the measurement results for AT mid-range tomorrow.

The AT mid is another great measuring driver.

Regards

/Göran
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Old 10th September 2012, 07:50 PM   #28
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I consider the 70-10 borderline super tweeter almost. Its got 3 times less radiating area and that impact the crossover point considerably. 4Khz minimum is what I found worked well but then your up against the wall when it comes to crossover frequency wavelength versus driver distance versus power response. Its not a driver I'd use or recommend as your unnecessarily limiting yourself.

The 70-20 is a nice choice and can be used quite happily around 3Khz much like the 140-15 but there's availability issues there.

The price of the RAAL's is considerable now with the price increases lately. I'd suggest the Fountek Neopro5 is better value by some way. It measures slightly better than the 140-15d but has the problems of beaming in the vertical. You could always fashion up some RAAL-esque foam pads if this was an issue you felt it was worth tackling but then you'd have to work the resultant droop in the on axis response.
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Old 10th September 2012, 07:58 PM   #29
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Neopro5? No way Jose. Been there, tried that. No good. Shin, have you seen independent measurements somewhere? I found it had something going on around 1.5-2KHz that still seemed audible even crossing over twice that high. We returned them and ended up using the Beyma TPL-150.

I agree on the 70-20 though. We're using them right now for a nearfield monitor and they seem just fine from 2.5-3KHz.

Greg
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Old 10th September 2012, 08:05 PM   #30
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I've measured them myself and have the data from Klang and Ton and Hobby Hifi magazines too. I've not seen anything untowards there. How old are your drivers? Mine were purchased in 2008 and the magazine measurements are from around 06 if I remember.

It wouldn't be the first time driver variations have introduced a problem so maybe you got something that dropped below the usual QC standard or perhaps cost cutting in recent batches? Dunno but I had no issues with them. They were very good ribbons.
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