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Old 25th October 2013, 06:16 PM   #541
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Once the specs are updated on the Danley website, we'll have a better idea of what's inside. It could be 5' or 6' coax drivers, or even BMS coax compression drivers.
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Old 25th October 2013, 06:19 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpeter View Post
Maybe its optical illusion, but paraline slots in middle look shorter
than those near the ends. Play with the contrast you can see it...

If the vertical pattern is tight as demonstrated in the video, why
this apparent taper?
Yay people are starting to realize some of the neat things you can do with these

I seriously think this device is more clever and elegant than even the layered combiner.

Here's what's going on IMHO:

Let's say you have a conventional line array.
Each box is 40cm tall, with a center to center spacing of 40cm.
At 213hz (one quarter wavelength), the elements of the array combine constructively. This is due to the tight spacing.
But as we go higher in frequency, we get a complex interference pattern.
By 1.6khz it's a complete mess.
Now most arrays put the compression drivers into a waveguide, to narrow the vertical pattern.
Let's say we opt for ten degrees of vertical coverage. Unfortunately, that requires a waveguide that's 228.6cm deep! So now you have a box that's 40cm tall by 228.6cm deep. Not too practical.
So they cheat. They use a vertical coverage angle that's too wide, and now the high frequencies in the array overlap.

Click the image to open in full size.
You can see the overlap in this B&C

The Paraline solves all of that. You get a wavefront that's the shape of a ribbon. So now you can pack lots of drivers vertically.

The last piece of the puzzle is the curvature.
All of the Synergy horns produce a wavefront that's basically like a cone shaped piece of a sphere.
Since this FR Paraline is a Synergy Horn, it needs to produce a curved wavefront.
To do that, the Paralines in the center of the FR Paraline need to 'lead' the Paralines on the edge of the FR Paraline. Not a lot; about four centimeters. So gradually scaling each Paraline in the line curves the wavefront.

If you *really* wanted to go nuts you could make the Paralines asymmetrical. That would seriously be splitting hairs, but high frequencies *are* very short, so an asymmetrical Paraline might not be completely crazy.

Here's how I'd make the line if it were me, from top to bottom:

1) 21.5 cm tall
2) 20 cm tall
3) 18.5 cm tall
4) 17 cm tall
5) 17 cm tall
6) 18.5 cm tall
7) 20 cm tall
8) 21.5 cm tall

A difference of 4.5cm might not seem like much, but 10khz is 3.4cm long. So even a difference of one centimeter counts.
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Old 25th October 2013, 07:14 PM   #543
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Hi guys
Patrick, you Art and a couple others here are often right or are partly right in your guesses.
Now it wouldnít be fun for the companies we compete against if I didnít make new stuff or if everything was obvious haha. On the other hand, one must be consistent with how sound works or itís just marketing so how it works can be figured out..
I can add a few clues though. If you keep all of these in mind, you will see the framework the answer must fit within.

Consider fig #7 I think it is in the synergy horn patent.

What conditions / rules must one live within to avoid horn pattern flip down to / below pattern loss frequency?

What happens if one were to move the source of an ďeyeĒ paraline up or down slightly?

What happens to time of propagation through one if one used different size paralines as Ken keenly observed?.

Consider the actual horn path length is not the easy to calculate cross section but that of a pressure radiated at the throat and bounded by solid walls confining the pressure to a fractional space and so has a protruding mouth bubble effect which can be significant.
Art, your right, I donít imagine we will ever make a line array. A true line array has so many problems related to itís geometry (unless one made one floor to ceiling) that the need to be shaped, curved or tapered in amplitude to make them behave more like a point source. With the exception of the Yorkville units with the paraline and synergy horn arrangement, most are made with acoustic sources much too far apart to combine into one and so radiate as individual sources.
It is possible to radiate much less to vastly energy outside the desired pattern with a large horn and have some other advantages. Where line arrays deliver a spectrum dictated by the vector sum of all the arriving sources, a single impulsive event is also spread out in time because of the different time of arrival from each source.
In other words, by having an interference pattern created by many individual sources one can use self cancellation and make the rate the spl falls off less than being on axis of a simple point source. This self cancellation is great for companies wanting to sell lots of cabinets, amplifiers and dsp and not so great if one wants intelligibility, economy or musical reproduction.
A wide band point source like Synergy horns only delivers one impulsive arrival, the large ones radiate much less energy out side of the desired pattern than big name line arrays and with the exception of hf air absorption also has the same spectral balance at any working distance, by using the directional lobe, one can in some cases produce only a 2 or 3 dB variation in spl over a vast area, even a stadium.
Best,
Tom
Hey if you have facebook and headphones, at the company FB page, below that paraline video is one for the Caleb which might be humorous. Itís a new stadium loudspeaker, a 10 foot tall constant directivity Synergy horn with over 100 drivers.
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Old 25th October 2013, 07:56 PM   #544
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I should really get some work done, but I had to take a stab at this

Click the image to open in full size.
Here's a Paraline, from the patent

Click the image to open in full size.
If the height is twice the width, you get a flat wavefront. That's because the distance A1 is the same as the distance D1 plus D2. Therefore, sound exits the two points at the same time.

Click the image to open in full size.
Stretch it out in the vertical axis, and now sound exits the center before it exits the edge. Now you have a wavefront that's diverging. If you keep the width of the Paraline constant and you add an inch to the height, then the sound that exits at the edge of the Paraline will be delayed by one half inch or 0.037ms. (Because the sound is travelling radially, that's why it's half.)

Click the image to open in full size.
Take that Paraline from the first case and move the throat up, and now the wavefront is pointed *down*.

You can also combine this in some rather odd ways. It's possible to have a wavefront that's J shaped, or a converging wavefront. You can use the Paraline to delay sound. You can even delay it based on angle. For instance, if you want the speakers to face one way but you want the wavefront to curve another, you can do that.

As you can imagine, there's limits to all of this. Not sure how much curvature you could get away with, but there's one way to find out...

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 25th October 2013 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 26th October 2013, 01:23 AM   #545
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Let's say we opt for ten degrees of vertical coverage. Unfortunately, that requires a waveguide that's 228.6cm deep! So now you have a box that's 40cm tall by 228.6cm deep. Not too practical.
So they cheat. They use a vertical coverage angle that's too wide, and now the high frequencies in the array overlap.

The Paraline solves all of that. You get a wavefront that's the shape of a ribbon. So now you can pack lots of drivers vertically.
Patrick,

10 degree HF angle would only work for a "line array" of four or five units, which would technically be a vertical array, not a line array.

Most industry accepted line arrays use HF throat guides that use equal path length slots to achieve similar results to the Paraline, a HF wavefront that diverges only slightly.

The Paraline happens to be the thinnest, but there are many examples under 14 centimeters that have vertical HF patterns of only a few degrees.

Art
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Old 1st November 2013, 11:07 PM   #546
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Even if phase terminates properly for line array or curved for synergy:
Are there any consequences that amplitude is greater at the center than
the ends? More degrees of the driver pie per linear unit of the exit slot...

Last edited by kenpeter; 1st November 2013 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 1st November 2013, 11:20 PM   #547
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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The specs are up on Danley's website. Says it uses eight 5" co-ax drivers. Guessing the same BMS 5" used in SM-60 Synergy horn.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danle...pec-sheet1.pdf
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Old 1st November 2013, 11:38 PM   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLH View Post
The specs are up on Danley's website. Says it uses eight 5" co-ax drivers. Guessing the same BMS 5" used in SM-60 Synergy horn.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danle...pec-sheet1.pdf
An interesting 'vindication' of the Synergy horn is that the full range Paraline has eight tweeters and can hit 130dB. But there are half a dozen Synergy horns that can hit the same SPL with just one tweeter!

But none of them are as small as the 'skinny big horn'.

Hoffman's Iron Law rears it's ugly head again.


It's an expensive solution too. Eight of those coax drivers are about $3200. But the driver complement in an SH-50 is about $870. ($150 for a compression driver, about $120 for the midranges, and another $600 for the midbasses.)

If you have the space, I can see how the 'normal' synergy horns are a no-brainer.
Then again, if cost is no object, the SBH is smaller, has a narrower beamwidth, and it's output level is comparable.

For home theater, that's pretty compelling. My tiny little apartment in San Diego doesn't have room for big speakers.

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 1st November 2013 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 1st November 2013, 11:45 PM   #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpeter View Post
Even if phase terminates properly for line array or curved for synergy:
Are there any consequences that amplitude is greater at the center than
the ends? More degrees of the driver pie per linear unit of the exit slot...
That's not a defect, that's a feature!
The fact that the output level is higher at the middle makes the Paraline easier to array.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 12:24 AM   #550
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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I think I remember Mike Hedden saying they are using ferrite drivers instead of neodymium due to cost. That would point to this one unless BMS is making a custom driver for them, which isn't out of the question.

BMS Pro 5C150
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