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Old 3rd August 2012, 01:15 PM   #1
renfrey is offline renfrey  Canada
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Default Soundbar Project

So before everyone cringes, I've decided to try out a passive soundbar mostly because all other ideas to get our HT back, were tossed by the significant other.

But I also must say that I am intrigued by the idea, and am interested to play around with the soundbar idea. I don't expect to get the same as a full seperate 5.1 layout, but I do hope to get the feeling of having my surround sound back.

I will be running it through a decent HT receiver, so it will be taking care of 5.1 decoding, delays, etc.. I also already have a nice sized Peerless XLS sub that will be handling the lower end.

Initially I was thinking on using fullranges, but then scraped that due to the power that can be easily put through them, and the performance at those volumes. Then I started to look at Zaph's bargin mini's, consisting of an MCM 55-1853 4" woofer and the Aura NT1 tweeter. The box volume fits my constraints, the driver size fits, and the performance falls within my requirements.

For the design, the LCR portion of the SB would basically be 3 of the Zaph mini's in a row. I am not sure about seperation distances, so if anyone has any suggestions, please bring them forth. Otherwise, I was just going to play around with it.

The surround effects drivers (or typical rear channels), which would be basically on either end of the SB, are the ones that I am really wondering about. I've looked at many aftermarket designs, and the majority simply have them forward firing. Then I started to wonder what effect angling them out would have. Or for that matter, even angling up to reflect off the ceiling. I thought about a dipole idea, but then that starts to mess around with the xover more than I'd like.

Any thoughts?
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Old 3rd August 2012, 01:26 PM   #2
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Old 3rd August 2012, 01:29 PM   #3
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renfrey View Post
Any thoughts?

Has

To make a real soundbar one needs signal processing to steer the main radiating lope the the intended direction. Usually sound bars emply DSP. Simply putting three small speakers side by side will not work.

For a passive system one can create stereo field in a room from a single speaker by following this method for example:
Elias Pekonen Home Page - Stereophonic Sound from a Single Speaker

The matrix is the key to steer the image.


Edit: someone was faster

- Elias
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Old 3rd August 2012, 01:31 PM   #4
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Old 3rd August 2012, 04:57 PM   #5
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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There's clearly no point suggesting that carefully selected FR drivers could work just fine for this application, particularly in a space this size, and has been said Zaph knows his onions, so any of his designs for which Madisound may have kit packages would likely more suit your comfort zone.

If you get to the point of needing rear surrounds. to repeat a post in the FR thread, would ceiling mounted /down firing be an option? This could be one of the applications were something like that might just work - IIRC from the drawing posted, there's not a whole lotta room.
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Last edited by chrisb; 3rd August 2012 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 3rd August 2012, 09:13 PM   #6
renfrey is offline renfrey  Canada
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Hmmmm......maybe I should go and give a listen to the Polk 400 or 500 CHT soundbars, as those are passive, and utilize your own HT receiver to do the processing. Too bad I couldn't get a look at their xover network, to see what they are doing (if anything really special).

I was hoping that using my receiver to adjust the delays, as well as spacing/angling (possibly), that I could adjust the lobe to better than just three speakers side by side.

I would still love to employ FR drivers, as I have done a few in the past, and I really like them! The only reason I started to lean in the 2-way direction (and continue the thread here), is because after reading through Zaph's write up of his bargin mini's, and how well they can perform for the money spent, I kinda liked the idea of not having to put too much money into this, when I am kinda experimenting. Totally open to FR's still, as long as they would be budget friendly. (I didn't want to start talking 2-way in the FR forum)

I am still working on the wife, regarding ceiling mounted, as I would deffinetly prefer to go in that direction. Yes, space is VERY limited, and yes, wife is VERY particular with the look of the room.
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Old 3rd August 2012, 09:47 PM   #7
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Originally Posted by renfrey View Post

I am still working on the wife, regarding ceiling mounted, as I would deffinetly prefer to go in that direction. Yes, space is VERY limited, and yes, wife is VERY particular with the look of the room.

then it would certainly behoove you to search for some photos of tidy ceiling mount installs - the short term headaches involved in hiding the wiring ("honey, we wanted to repaint the ceiling anyway, right?" or " you need a spa weekend with your gal pals, and I'll take care of the speakers") will pay dividends down the road
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Old 3rd August 2012, 09:55 PM   #8
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

There are good soundbars and bad ones, depending on your ambition.

Fair to say most are just LCR in a compact format.

"Proper" soundbars use a multidriver array and DSP to steer the
channels responses, they are far removed from a one box LCR.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 3rd August 2012, 10:29 PM   #9
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renfrey View Post
I would still love to employ FR drivers, as I have done a few in the past, and I really like them! The only reason I started to lean in the 2-way direction (and continue the thread here), is because after reading through Zaph's write up of his bargin mini's, and how well they can perform for the money spent, I kinda liked the idea of not having to put too much money into this, when I am kinda experimenting. Totally open to FR's still, as long as they would be budget friendly. (I didn't want to start talking 2-way in the FR forum)
You can do two way with matrix stereo no problem It's in no means limited to fullrange drivers.

If all you can have in your room is a single passive box speaker on top (or below) the TV then it can be the solution.


- Elias
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Old 9th August 2012, 03:17 PM   #10
renfrey is offline renfrey  Canada
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Update:

So I managed to get a "sure" for the ceiling mount speakers for the surrounds. That does make things much better.

As for the L-C-R speakers (now that I can do them as seperates!), I did some digging around to see what drivers I have that are gathering dust, and I found a few that may be useful. I found 2 TangBand W3-594SB drivers, 2 TangBand W4-616SA drivers, 2 HiVi M4N drivers, and 5 Morel MDT29 or MDT30 tweeters(I can't remember which, I'll have to confirm again when I get home), 6 Peerless 831974 5" drivers, and 4 other Peerless drivers that look like they are just the next size up (I'll have to pull them out of the cabinets they are in).

So I am sure that I can pick out something from what I have for the seperate L-C-R speakers. Initially I am thinking of maybe pairing the TangBand W4-616SA drivers with a Morel tweeter each for the L & R drivers, and using the W3-594SB drivers also with a Morel tweeter for the center (as the 3" drivers would fit better under the TV).

So how about some thoughts on that (or using something else that I have)?

Last edited by renfrey; 9th August 2012 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Broken Links
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