You'll no doubt be aware of Wilmslow Audio's LS3 which employs the following drivers:
Treble: Vifa D27TG-35-06
Bass-mid: Monacor SPH-135AD
Yes of course, been doing plenty of homework
Thanks very much for the link all the same. You never know there are so many things 'you could have missed' Not sure which way to go yet though. The variety of drivers makes things confusing. As lush as the B110 sounds as well I think most would admit its not the best driver especially by modern standards.
I wonder what the Monacor carbon fibre would sound like? Not much experience of carbon fibre cones myself, I know ProAc used it once in one of their tablettes I think, but dont think that went down as successfully as some of their other models. And I heard some of Wilson Benech desings which use them, they were good but silly price tags. And anyway I have liked the many polypropylene types I've had over the years of various kinds so may go that way. They seem to make a sound that is pleasing to my ear anyway. Some of translucent or even transparent ones have been particularly good.
I like it. It even looks quite B110 ish as well. Paper cones are another generally good bet I find. Would be nice to compare it with a poly cone.
How about crossovers guys are there any simple ones off the shelf I could start with. Cheap as poss. Crossover tweakery is something I am completely unfamiliar with other than I know they need them
But on the other side of that one of my favourite ever designs have been the old epos es series which use no crossovers as such apart from the resistor / capacitor or whatever on the tweeter to save it from frying.I'm building a 'work-a-like' monitor with same dimensions as the deeper Falcon Monitor Quality Compact, with 3rd order electrical filters and a recessed woofer, 1/2" ply, beech battens, etc...
I am using the Peerless Heritage 5 1/4" woofer: Peerless TPY05W08O0088 5-1/4" Heritage Family Woofer 8 Ohm
and a Vifa d19 tweeter. Just waiting on crossover components, but I am hopeful it will be a great homage to the real thing.
I am using the Peerless Heritage 5 1/4" woofer: Peerless TPY05W08O0088 5-1/4" Heritage Family Woofer 8 Ohm
and a Vifa d19 tweeter. Just waiting on crossover components, but I am hopeful it will be a great homage to the real thing.
That is the most exciting thing I have read at this forum in ages!
We now have a decent 5" driver back for the hobbyists!
This being a splendid Harbeth LS3/5A version.
But I'd give this Peerless TPY05W08O0088 a go:
Peerless TPY05W08O0088 5-1/4" Heritage Family Woofer 8 Ohm
It's the old Vifa P13WH-00-08 back with a smaller magnet more for closed box:
Tymphany P13WH-00 5" Woofer
Lynn Olson must be falling off his chair in excitement! The Ariel, Part I
We now know to do it MTM, of course. Goes louder.
We now have a decent 5" driver back for the hobbyists!
This being a splendid Harbeth LS3/5A version.
But I'd give this Peerless TPY05W08O0088 a go:
Peerless TPY05W08O0088 5-1/4" Heritage Family Woofer 8 Ohm
It's the old Vifa P13WH-00-08 back with a smaller magnet more for closed box:
Tymphany P13WH-00 5" Woofer
Lynn Olson must be falling off his chair in excitement! The Ariel, Part I
We now know to do it MTM, of course. Goes louder.
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No images as of yet, I've just got some test boxes that I rigged up a temporary baffle on to do some crossover work.
My first attempt at a crossover is on order, expected later this week. I'll try this weekend to build it up and take some measurements. This woofer is phenomenal however. While learning VituixCAD I made a few other plan 'b' attempts, including one that had no low pass on the woofer, just some shelving and a notch. It's amazing -- it just 'goes away' around 4-5khz on its own, with no fuss.
I found the woofer while scouring the web for a poly cone 5 1/4" woofer. Surprisingly not too many options when other factors are weighed.
If I could go back in time a few weeks I'd have seriously considered this. LS3/5 construction/look, MTM arrangement. I'm already breaking from tradition anyway, and I'm a big fan of MTM. I'd have chosen a small frame tweeter though, but that is not an issue.
I chose the D19 here: Peerless by Tymphany D19TD-05 3/4" Poly Dome Tweeter
because it was $20 and had all the right qualities (but mostly, it was $20). I wanted the Seas 22tff but at a few more bucks and a second supplier, I chose to keep it simple. Given the LS3/5 style of build, however, I'm a couple baffles away from a complete redesign anyway -- that is why I liked the idea of the 'thin wall' construction. I can tinker but live in the same box.
You might be making it more difficult than it is:
The Ariel, Part II
2mH coil and 4.7uF and 6.8R shunt IMO.
You'll need to attenuate Lynn's tweeter filter by 4dB.
The Ariel, Part II
2mH coil and 4.7uF and 6.8R shunt IMO.
You'll need to attenuate Lynn's tweeter filter by 4dB.
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Have you seen this? equipped baffle:
Harwood Acoustics Monitor LS 3/5A BBC Spezifikation, fertig montierte Schallwand kaufen bei hifisound.de
Harwood Acoustics Monitor LS 3/5A BBC Spezifikation, fertig montierte Schallwand kaufen bei hifisound.de
I've got two tweeter diffusors lying about... off some Celestion tweeters. Could probably get huge bucks for them. No idea if they help. More protection from bumps and kid's fingers, IMO.
The spongey diffraction fix may have more value.
If you read Lynn Olson, you will discover he thought the KEF B110 was an awful driver. Much happier with the Vifa P13WH. Simpler crossover you see.
The spongey diffraction fix may have more value.
If you read Lynn Olson, you will discover he thought the KEF B110 was an awful driver. Much happier with the Vifa P13WH. Simpler crossover you see.
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That is the most exciting thing I have read at this forum in ages!
We now have a decent 5" driver back for the hobbyists!
This being a splendid Harbeth LS3/5A version.
But I'd give this Peerless TPY05W08O0088 a go:
Peerless TPY05W08O0088 5-1/4" Heritage Family Woofer 8 Ohm
It's the old Vifa P13WH-00-08 back with a smaller magnet more for closed box:
Tymphany P13WH-00 5" Woofer
Lynn Olson must be falling off his chair in excitement! The Ariel, Part I
We now know to do it MTM, of course. Goes louder.
Hmm, it does look very interesting will look into this further. Very appealing and excellent value for money it seems.
Wow, thank you, this is quite amazing if not exactly cheap. That is basically the LS3/5A taken care of minus a decent cabinet. It seems good value for money as well as far as LS3/5A's go anyway, certainly one to ponder over for a bit. Was in the mind set of build a cheap one but I may even pull the trigger on that one.
I have to say I like your style, man after my own heart
I know these prestigious drivers are very appealing but they also come with a hefty price tag. Are they better, probably yes but are they really that much better for the money and to the human ear, debatable, especially if you do a good job of implementing the cheaper ones and make a decent cabinet. As you say pick a driver for the characteristics you like and make the best you can out of it.
Cabinet design a la BBC uses the cracked bell idea with light ply construction and thin beech battens:
The screwed on front panel is a feature in these Harbeths:
Presumably some fluffy stuff in the main volume too.
And heavy rubbery or bitumen damping glued to the side panels in these Spendors:
All designed for low energy storage.
The screwed on front panel is a feature in these Harbeths:
Presumably some fluffy stuff in the main volume too.
And heavy rubbery or bitumen damping glued to the side panels in these Spendors:
All designed for low energy storage.
You say the fluffy stuff. I know the bbc designs go for foam/sponge yet many other seem to go for fleece or dacron. Be nice to hear the differences actually to see what a difference using either makes overall.
Cabinet panel damping is easy enough. Rigid ply panels with rubbery or bitumen stuff glued or stapled to it. The knock test.
Edge damping with say an inch of foam or felt is trickier. The theory says it only attenuates wavelengths below a quarter wavelength. Which might be above 2kHz.
Volume damping is often a waste of time. In theory it can increase the effective volume of a box by 25%. Ideally you need really heavy fibreglass in closed box. AR used to use it. Has little application with reflex. But foul and scratchy stuff which you certainly don't want to breathe in. Most manufacturers throw in a bit of BAF wadding. Used in air-conditioner filters too. Doubtful if it does a lot.
TBH, you might use bits of thick carpet and an old pillow just as effectively.
Edge damping with say an inch of foam or felt is trickier. The theory says it only attenuates wavelengths below a quarter wavelength. Which might be above 2kHz.
Volume damping is often a waste of time. In theory it can increase the effective volume of a box by 25%. Ideally you need really heavy fibreglass in closed box. AR used to use it. Has little application with reflex. But foul and scratchy stuff which you certainly don't want to breathe in. Most manufacturers throw in a bit of BAF wadding. Used in air-conditioner filters too. Doubtful if it does a lot.
TBH, you might use bits of thick carpet and an old pillow just as effectively.
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The TPY is a lovely driver, but very different from the P13.
The P13 has a long gentle rolloff, the TPY is a little flatter, but drops rather than rolls off.
The TPY is well suited to the British higher freqency, higher order style. Or the other extreme, for the component-phobics, cross even higher with no low-pass at all.
The P13 is a mellow fellow, plays easily with others, a first or second order over a wide range of choices as to frequency.
There is still no perfect replacement for the P13, alas, but the TPY does behave as its ancestor did, FR and TSPs very similar.
Of course, they did not bring them back until I had used HDSs to replace the woofer in the little jobs I built for my mother in '82 or so(they each had a bass bin with an 8 to take the load off). Matched tone with her piano nicely.
Whole new crossover, but oh well, so it goes, if I put in the TPYs, I'll use modern methods and start from scratch.
The P13 has a long gentle rolloff, the TPY is a little flatter, but drops rather than rolls off.
The TPY is well suited to the British higher freqency, higher order style. Or the other extreme, for the component-phobics, cross even higher with no low-pass at all.
The P13 is a mellow fellow, plays easily with others, a first or second order over a wide range of choices as to frequency.
There is still no perfect replacement for the P13, alas, but the TPY does behave as its ancestor did, FR and TSPs very similar.
Of course, they did not bring them back until I had used HDSs to replace the woofer in the little jobs I built for my mother in '82 or so(they each had a bass bin with an 8 to take the load off). Matched tone with her piano nicely.
Whole new crossover, but oh well, so it goes, if I put in the TPYs, I'll use modern methods and start from scratch.
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Alan Shaw at Harbeth has moved on from the Vifa P13WH-00-08 idea these days:
If he is like me, he'd have thought of phase plugs, copper damping rings and better plastics for the cone.
But really, why did Tymphany pull the best cheap 5" polycone driver in the World? A bizarre commercial decision. Enquiring minds want to know.
BTW, IMO, the Peerless 830860 is quite good. Just a horrible form factor.
If he is like me, he'd have thought of phase plugs, copper damping rings and better plastics for the cone.
But really, why did Tymphany pull the best cheap 5" polycone driver in the World? A bizarre commercial decision. Enquiring minds want to know.
BTW, IMO, the Peerless 830860 is quite good. Just a horrible form factor.
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