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Old 16th July 2012, 04:29 PM   #1
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Default Please help choose between two 3-way designs

I have narrowed down my search for my next project, which will be compact three-way speakers for my main listening room (4m x 6m, 19ft x 13ft).

My two candidates are:

Selah Tempesta: Tempesta

Scan Speak Faktum: Hobby HiFi Loudspeaker Kits: Faktum

I was proposing to build the Faktums with 33 litre cabinets with a 2.5" vent by 8" long for F3 of 38Hz. This is about 33 litres, which I can accomodate. Extreme low bass is not essential.
My cabinet design was look like this:Click the image to open in full size.


Both designs use very high quality drivers.

The Tempesta uses ScanSpeak Illuminator 18W, Accuton C50, and a RAAL tweeter with crossover points at 900hz, and 5000Hz, I think.

The Faktum uses all Scan Speak 22W, 15M, R29/70000 with crossover points at 150Hz, and 2200Hz.

The drivers and crossover points are quite different, and this is what I would like some help with. What would the major differences in sound/voicing be like for these two designs?

I listen to a wide range of music, but no thrash, metal, or rap. I want a very detailed, yet unfatiguing sound. Some warmth and richness would be good.

My previous speakers were AOS Studio 12XL Scan-Speak They were beutifully coherent and very neutral, which initially did not appeal, but which I came to love.

My other gear is Twisterd Pear Buffalo 11 DAC going into Hypex UCD180HG with hxr.
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Old 16th July 2012, 04:46 PM   #2
adason is offline adason  United States
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how do they manage to make both 84-85 dB/w/m only? are they puting resitors everywhere? why? I hate low efficiency speakers, always sound so sterile, congested
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Old 16th July 2012, 10:21 PM   #3
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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If you do not build the speakers EXACTLY like the original boxes, you may find the results less than what you hope. I sure would not put out that kind of money and not know what the result would be. Your cabinet idea is fine, but it will change the BSC and diffraction properties which may upset the overall balance.

The voicing is what the designers spent their time on. If you change it, you have changed the speaker and can either take credit if it is wonderful, or don't blame the designer if it is not.

Example. I was planning to use exactly the same drivers as the Zaph sr71 to do a comparison with the cloth tweeter he specified and the same motor but metal dome. So, I bought the kit ( cheaper). I built a test cabinet that fit both tweeters so I could switch back and forth. They were horrible. Way too bright. I played with them a lot and got them pretty good. Our listening said we wanted the metal tweeters, so I built the real cabinets. Guess what? I wound up with the original crossover. Unlistenable to very well balanced just because of the dimensions and radius of the cabinet corners.
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Old 16th July 2012, 10:27 PM   #4
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adason View Post
how do they manage to make both 84-85 dB/w/m only? are they puting resitors everywhere? why? I hate low efficiency speakers, always sound so sterile, congested
I would offer that it is not low efficiency, but poorly executed low efficiency. I have been playing with some very efficient Fostex. Sterile and congested do not even begin to touch on their issues. The flip of that is even I have built very conventional 86 db-ish speakers that to me are quite open and musical.

Now, I am remembering Kilpch and his big contribution that all things being equal ( and they never are) efficiency and distortion are inversely proportional. There is something to be learned there. Not sure corner horns with $2 tweeters was it, but none the less.

Of course, if I could get the same results with 92 dB, I could even afford a class A amp or at least fully regulated one.
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Old 16th July 2012, 10:29 PM   #5
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
Guess what? I wound up with the original crossover. Unlistenable to very well balanced just because of the dimensions and radius of the cabinet corners.
if its been measured properly, you cant change a single screw without having audible effect
even a small differences in surface structure, like different kinds of paints, no paints, or veneering, could have audible effect
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Old 17th July 2012, 10:53 AM   #6
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Thanks for the replies.

Quote:
I sure would not put out that kind of money and not know what the result would be.
Hence my post.

My revised cabinet design for the Faktum uses identical driver placement, and the beginning of my proposed roundover on the pyramid sides will be located as per the original design's champfer location. This should be ok??? It has also been pointed out to me that there may be a suckout at 257hz of 1.5dB due to the proximity of the middrange driver to the floor. Ultimately, I had decided that if it all went wrong, I could DSP in the digital domain in front of my DAC, without any sq consequences.

Notwithstanding the above, I was really hoping to hear opions on these speakers based upon driver size and crossover points. For example, I have read an opinion of the Tempestas that goes thus: "I'm also not a fan of very small midrange drivers, I've heard hundreds over the years with 4" woofers all the way down to 2" dome midranges, and they all lack scale and weight to vocals. Yes they can sound very clean and accurate, but they don't convey a sense of power."

I would appreciate any input or comments akin to these.

The frequency response curves of the Tempesta can be found here:Tempesta

The ones for the Faktum can be found at the end of this article:
http://www.vegalab.ru/forum/attachme...5&d=1299273567
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Last edited by dublin78; 17th July 2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 18th July 2012, 01:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dublin78 View Post
"I'm also not a fan of very small midrange drivers, I've heard hundreds over the years with 4" woofers all the way down to 2" dome midranges, and they all lack scale and weight to vocals. Yes they can sound very clean and accurate, but they don't convey a sense of power."
That's the type of driver you get. To make a speaker I advise you to start there.
If you go check (another opinion) the speakers from Wayne Parham they all have big mids (10" midwoofer) or low crossed CD horns for big amplitude.
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