You won't be attenuating much at all. Don't you have a digital EQ?
What size baffle are you intending on using?
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Well if I buy 2 x 15", I can always try hook them up together in the one speaker to try them out and see how much difference it makes over a single 15"
If I found that I was blown away by the difference I could always buy two more.
Have one of these... Ground Sound
Not planning on using a baffle plan to just suspend the drivers like a few of the others that have posted in this thread.
Wow, just did the conversion to US $. Ouch! That's a lot of money and still need many channels of amps.
I'm wondering on how well that Raal dipole is going to do down low. Might roll off earlier than the normal model. This could cause a rise in distortion near the crossover point if that area of the Raal now needs boosted.
I'm wondering on how well that Raal dipole is going to do down low. Might roll off earlier than the normal model. This could cause a rise in distortion near the crossover point if that area of the Raal now needs boosted.
What you should notice is very realistic drum sounds, eg snare, rimshot, the leading edge of fast dynamic transient notes are super real like heavily plucked notes on stringed instruments, the decay of notes is the same as single 15. If you love music with sudden changes in dynamic content slapping on bass guitar, drums, orchestral music, you will love dual 15s. If you mainly listen to accoustic type of music without drums or dynamic changes a single 15 might do
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Even with a baffle he won't be attenuating the bass, if he wants to get to 40hz with a low-mid q driver. I really don't see any good reason to go baffleless on the bass drivers. You throw away efficiency you're already losing due to the dipole roll-off. With an active setup setting levels is pretty trivial anyways.
The way I'm doing it with a single 15 on each side (in a u-frame), IIRC I've got a boost of about 12db at 35, 8db at 40 and I high shelf at 100hz -6db to flatten everything out. I also have a low shelf at 100hz sometimes +5db, this is on the fly to taste depending on the content. Without that high shelf the boost on the bottom end to get to 40 flat is 20+ and near clipping the outputs on my DAC. That's something you've got to keep an eye on with bass heavy music using this kind of boost.
I used to eq with huge amounts of boost on the bottom end so I wouldn't have to shelf the rising response, but to do so I'd have to digitally attenuate the bass driver -10db in order to have enough head room for the low end boost. These days I like to use as much of my DAC's bit depth as I can, so I flatten out the rising response and can the digital attenuation.
This is all at super sane apartment listening levels though. I imagine I'd want to double up on the woofers if higher spl was required.
Long story short I think h-frames are the way to go for dipole bass.
Yet I don't see any good reason for not isolating the woofer itself .
Yes you do isolate the other drivers from the tremendous vibrations induced by woofer's cone movement , but why you don't decouple the woofer from the environment ? So the problem it's not resolved yet .
Just because it transmits good vibrations and you like the feel of them ?
That's another story , as also should be investigated more the kind of sound
perceived when using some dipole sources .
Sorry I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that... I was actually thinking of a H or U frame. I was actually thinking about the tweeter and mids when I made that statement, not about the woofers which we are discussing. Must have been having a blonde moment.
Picowall I am of a similar mind if the tweet - mid can be decoupled from the woofers without causing major hassles I would like to head down that path.
Based on what people are saying I take it the woofer suffers from greater dipole roll off than the other drivers? So it wont hurt to have additional dB in the low end of town.
Picowall I am of a similar mind if the tweet - mid can be decoupled from the woofers without causing major hassles I would like to head down that path.
Based on what people are saying I take it the woofer suffers from greater dipole roll off than the other drivers? So it wont hurt to have additional dB in the low end of town.
The roll off starts as function of baffle width. The wider the baffle the lower it will go before starting to roll off. Having said that I am not much of a fan of big OB unless you have a big room. They start losing their magic as you go bigger if you don't have a big room to move them out into the room
Last night while I was in double 15 mode I came up with an idea to reduce the height of the 15"'s to allow drivers to be placed above the woofers without making it too high.
This is a pic of what I had in mind. Please note I have just repurposed the Sketch Up mids for demontation purposes only to demonstrate the idea.
Kind of like a H but slanting the board between the drivers to allow them to be closer together.
Figure with 15" driver should be able to get a couple of inches overlap on both drivers with a nett gain of ~4-6". That would address a lot of the height issues.
Not so sure how it would go with reducing sound since one side of each of the drivers would be slightly compressed.
Was thinking of clear acrylic to build the box...
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oops forgot the sides...
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and here is what I had in mind to isolate the woofers from the tweeter and mids.
This is a pic of what I had in mind. Please note I have just repurposed the Sketch Up mids for demontation purposes only to demonstrate the idea.
Kind of like a H but slanting the board between the drivers to allow them to be closer together.
Figure with 15" driver should be able to get a couple of inches overlap on both drivers with a nett gain of ~4-6". That would address a lot of the height issues.
Not so sure how it would go with reducing sound since one side of each of the drivers would be slightly compressed.
Was thinking of clear acrylic to build the box...
Edit:
oops forgot the sides...
Edit 2:
and here is what I had in mind to isolate the woofers from the tweeter and mids.
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Yes just reading the article now (or at least looking at the pictures) The Slot Loaded Open Baffle Project Article By Nelson Pass
Hmmm think I need to investigate this idea a bit further.
Hmmm think I need to investigate this idea a bit further.
I think the trade-off with adding multiple bass woofers to an enclosure is that it limits flexibility (placement). If you're determined, by design, to have all the drivers located in one area ... that's fine and it works great. ... but if you're interested in exciting the room even better with LF you'd be sort of stuck using that driver arrangement ... maybe leaving something on the table?
I like adding the mains into a low lying (and low level) fog of bass. The mains add focus to the detail of the fog. Potential draw back here is time alignment ... it helps. ... and this might get complicated with stereo bass. Although, mine seem to stay coherent in a pretty good sized listening area. Guessing that if the overlap is low enough timing doesn't need to be absolutely "perfect". If they're placed a good distance though, not trying to TA the signal will get you boomy LF(s).
At any rate, wouldn't be anything stopping a guy from building separate 15" enclosures ... either U or H frames giving him some placement flexibility. For instance ... what if you wanted to elevate one of the LF drivers to help even out room response at the listening position? Can't if the packaging won't allow it.
If separation is not your cup of tea after all ... just gang them back together. ... and you'll have some flexibility in this arrangement as well.
I like adding the mains into a low lying (and low level) fog of bass. The mains add focus to the detail of the fog. Potential draw back here is time alignment ... it helps. ... and this might get complicated with stereo bass. Although, mine seem to stay coherent in a pretty good sized listening area. Guessing that if the overlap is low enough timing doesn't need to be absolutely "perfect". If they're placed a good distance though, not trying to TA the signal will get you boomy LF(s).
At any rate, wouldn't be anything stopping a guy from building separate 15" enclosures ... either U or H frames giving him some placement flexibility. For instance ... what if you wanted to elevate one of the LF drivers to help even out room response at the listening position? Can't if the packaging won't allow it.
If separation is not your cup of tea after all ... just gang them back together. ... and you'll have some flexibility in this arrangement as well.
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