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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 26th September 2012, 10:41 AM   #221
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Beaming for a 12 cm mid starts at 3 Khz, so it's the crossover point to the RAAL that's important
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Old 26th September 2012, 10:54 AM   #222
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Ok what about this? lowers another 300mm bringing it down to 1 meter tall.
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Last edited by Silent Screamer; 26th September 2012 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 26th September 2012, 11:04 AM   #223
hajj is offline hajj  Lebanon
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One thing intrigues me, what's the horn for?
The Raal already covers the whole upper range from 2-60khz....
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Old 26th September 2012, 11:05 AM   #224
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mid woofer to help with 100-1000hz
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Old 26th September 2012, 12:21 PM   #225
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Think this one is kind of funky...
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Old 26th September 2012, 12:31 PM   #226
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The higher the crossover frequency between two drivers, the closer together you want their centers to be so as to avoid comb filtering.
In this case, it should be a priority to use the short side of the raal to mount it as close as possible to the driver to which it is crossed.
I was trying to go back through the thread to understand about the horn loaded driver, but I can't seem to find it. (I very highly doubt that such a horn can cover frequencies as low as 100hz)
What about the two small drivers, are they covering the same freq range?
A better solution IMO is to get the twin drivers (perhaps use four/side in a tight square formation) to cover the 100-2500hz range and then cross them to the Raal beyond that.
You'll end up with a three-way that should perform really well.
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Old 29th September 2012, 06:06 AM   #227
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The current configuration is Raal crossover over to two ScanSpeak 12MU mids at 4000hz which are then crossed over slightly high to a Tc Sounds Pro 5100 18" woofer at 300hz.

I want to move the 12MU bottom end up to about 1500hz and slip a mid woofer in the 150-1500 hole that is left.

Now that I have the woofers here and have started listening to it I don't think I want to try the slot loaded design idea that I was considering earlier. There doesn't appear to be sufficient excursion to make the idea work properly, I think the risk of causing reflection muddiness outways the potenial gain.

Had I used a higher qts driver it probably would have worked.

Been reading a few articles on this website Designing Loudspeakers - Part 20 Open Baffle Room Responses

and it has given me reason to think that I should perhaps try divorce the bass from the tweeter - mid - mid woofer combination, and use room placement to give better a sound mix.
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Old 29th September 2012, 01:53 PM   #228
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You should experiment with that separate bass placement. Work your mains as a 3-way(?) and add in the 18's as subs. ... but don't look to cross them @300hz as separates.
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Old 29th September 2012, 03:04 PM   #229
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What I am currently thinking is have the Raal dipole tweeters I have coming on top, followed by the two 12MUs mids (facing opposite directions like StigErics) and a ~10" mid woofer all together and away from the walls, and a separate woofer crossed over around 100hz in its own cabinet. And like in that article placed to get the best bass, rather than putting it where the main speakers are, that way it takes the load off trying to electronically boost the bass. Since sub frequencies are omni directional I could place them anywhere, in fact I am considering making a sub couch like I have seen done on these forrums.

Last edited by Silent Screamer; 29th September 2012 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 29th September 2012, 03:12 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Screamer View Post
The current configuration is Raal crossover over to two ScanSpeak 12MU mids at 4000hz which are then crossed over slightly high to a Tc Sounds Pro 5100 18" woofer at 300hz.

I want to move the 12MU bottom end up to about 1500hz and slip a mid woofer in the 150-1500 hole that is left.

Now that I have the woofers here and have started listening to it I don't think I want to try the slot loaded design idea that I was considering earlier. There doesn't appear to be sufficient excursion to make the idea work properly, I think the risk of causing reflection muddiness outways the potenial gain.

Had I used a higher qts driver it probably would have worked.

Been reading a few articles on this website Designing Loudspeakers - Part 20 Open Baffle Room Responses

and it has given me reason to think that I should perhaps try divorce the bass from the tweeter - mid - mid woofer combination, and use room placement to give better a sound mix.
Look, I know we are all throwing advice your way, but you are still lacking the basics. Maybe the 12 mu will not make it to 300hz comfortably, but you DO NOT need to run them all the way up to 1500. Why such a big jump? It makes NO sense at all to use them from 1500-3 or 4KHz only. That's just basic design. If they do not sound good down to 300hz, try 400, then 500 and so on.

I saw your post about the veteran speaker designer 'testing' them for you. Did he measure? Did he properly filter them? I only saw a mention of using a single inductor to bring down the top range. If that is all he did THAT IS NOT A PROPER OR FAIR test. I am not saying that they WILL work low enough to meet the 5100, BUT you are still just flying along by the seat of your pants with all of this and it makes me crazy to see you spend big $$$ and make rash, hasty judgments. You are working with the best drivers on the planet. They WILL sound good with proper implementation. Without, and you might as well buy something cheap for Jaycar.

We all have different opinions of where to take this project, but I think I can speaker or everyone commenting here that you need to proceed methodically. Give what you've got a fair chance. Do not waste time on some crazy looking prototype, overly complicated baffle designm Make a quick dirty proer framerwork to hold the 5100 nice and stable. Then make another baffle or framework to hold the 12mu and the Raal over or beside the 5100. Get it all set-up, run some sweeps BOTH nearfield for each driver to see what they do ON THE BAFFLE OR FRAMEWORK and then again at 1 meter away to see how they integrate with each other. Just laying those 12mu on your TV stand and having a listening impression is garbage. It will never sound good like that. OB and especially nude OB, require judicious use of EQing. Have you seen in StigEriks thread where he posts all of his EQ requirements? There are many bands of shelving and parametric on his multiway, original designs.

Greg
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