Open Baffle vs Infinite Baffle. - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th July 2012, 05:42 PM   #11
DrDyna is online now DrDyna  United States
diyAudio Member
 
DrDyna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondogenerator View Post
cool project! Ive often dreamt of doing this, (i havdm a small apartment) there are some Mivoc kits available for in wall IB, though i have no idea of their sound. In my situation i have drywall and around 4 inches of batten depth, and i have thought of cutting in, then mounting the baffle on the surface anchored into the batten. Once i suss how to toe them in i may try it.
I thought about toe as well, as I usually have my mains ever so slightly toed in. I've had a couple of ideas on how to get it if not having it ends up sounding strange to me.

Perhaps something as simple as shaving down the baffle board into a wedge before mounting..
__________________
"We may have to blast.." -Doc Brown
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2012, 05:43 PM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
john k...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
Open baffle or dipole and IB will not sound remotely similar in a room do to room modes and reflections.


More similarity to the old Allison wall loaded speakers.
__________________
John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2012, 06:04 PM   #13
DrDyna is online now DrDyna  United States
diyAudio Member
 
DrDyna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by john k... View Post
Open baffle or dipole and IB will not sound remotely similar in a room do to room modes and reflections.


More similarity to the old Allison wall loaded speakers.
What's your opinion on this IB idea? Do you think it's a worthwhile thing to try?
__________________
"We may have to blast.." -Doc Brown
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2012, 08:30 PM   #14
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

Bass down to 70Hz or so is easily doable from a decent sized dipole source.

It inevitably will be very different to IB wall loaded bass, as will dipole midrange
and IB midrange, its chalk and cheese regarding the dipoles ninety degree off
axis nulls and the total lack of such for IB wall mounting.
Both can work but will sound quite different.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th July 2012, 01:20 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
john k...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
What's your opinion on this IB idea? Do you think it's a worthwhile thing to try?
IB bass can be fine. IB midrabnge and upper octaveshave always sounds 2-dimensional and flat to me. Not my cup of tea. Positioning of the speakers is a significant factor in achieving "space". You don't have the option to move the speakers around with a full range IB system.
__________________
John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th July 2012, 05:17 AM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
ashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 3RS
You are now getting into a should you or shouldn't you do your IB plan.

We've gone over the fact (many times!) that dipoles sound very different from IB's . They are harder to set up properly.......I think.

However you are making a home theater and not setting up a dedicated stereo music system. I would think the video based application ( unless it is mainly for music video's !) will work very well with IB's.
You do not have much to do to get your IB going. So do it ! If you find it great then stick to it until you get to hear a dipole and determine if that is required for your application.

Going dipole now when you are almost finished with the IB doesn't seem to make sense. Starting on dipoles will lead to much more time spent and MUCH more testing and added parts than what's going on now.

So I suggest you get your IB completed , enjoy it for some time and then you can start researching dipoles and IF you really need it for this application.

If you were just going in for a stereo music system then I'd say change course and do the dipole !
__________________
AM
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th July 2012, 06:00 AM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Radugazon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sulawesi
I can give you also an advice as I have both IB and H frames subs in the same room each fitted with 4 x 15" and the appropriate EQ + digital delay.

Whatever could be the respectable considerations of room modes and other coupling phenomenons, for what is simply earing, the IB kills the OB/dipole, not only because the power handling, the possibility of going eventually under the audibility threshold (means feeling the bass), but the sound quality is also much more clean and then realist. The restitution of the recording venue seems also more accurate when it's about huge volumes.

BTW, I finished by using all together in a kind of 2 ways sub. This compromise gives I think the best of both worlds.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th July 2012, 09:46 AM   #18
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Let me clarify. Open baffle has a path for sound from front to back. If it is flat or folded into an open box, no matter. There is a path. IB there is NO path. Think of a speaker in the wall. If you put a speaker in a sealed box that is so large that it has no additional loading effects, then it behaves as an IB. The "cavity" if an OB is folded into a box does not have any loading effects, but it may change reflections and diffraction. Clue: "Infinite"

Their frequency response will be different, but the loading is the same. There is a big following for IB subs. Cult of the IB or something like that. More DIY folks. For OB work, go read Linkwitz and about the Orion.

Both have advantages, both have disadvantages. Both have their place.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th July 2012, 10:12 AM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
john k...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
There is another issue with IB bass that should be considered. It is ofter discussed that OB bass, or dipole bass, doesn't excite room modes ascross the room or in the vertical direction. The thing is, that can be an advantage for a single woofer. But if you go IB and use 4 woofers you can (should, IMO) position the woofer so that two are 1/4 of the room height off the floor and two are 1/4 of the room height from the ceiling. In the horizontal direction there should be two woofers 1/4 of the room width from the left wall and two 1/4 of the room width from the right wall. In this manner many of the lower frequency modes in the vertical and horizontal directions will either cancel between woofers or not be excited at all. Axial modes in the lengthwise direction will, however, be excited to the maximum with wall mounted, IB woofers, but this can be countered by correct choice of seating position. But you are limited to a single row of seats for best bass.
__________________
John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th July 2012, 12:00 PM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
Radugazon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sulawesi
Wow, that's a great and immediate insight on the subject.
It took me months to set up the best position, and indeed it's almost that : vertical and central IB array of 4 x 15" and the 4 OB on the sides. I say almost because of course I couldn't think of the rule of the 1/4.

Other confirmation, following the listening distance, there is indeed some irreductible perturbations. The worse being a 60 Hz dip measured from 10 meters. Only 1 meter closer and no more. If still closer, other perturbations appear.

I can add that with this optimal 9 meters distance, an other practical concern is the geometric alignment of the in wall IB with the OBs as the resulting arc of circle is quite cumbersome, with the OBs that can't be too close of the wall. All this needs space.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does open baffle suffer from baffle step? 454Casull Multi-Way 15 19th May 2012 03:12 PM
Upwards aligned open baffle? ( pop box meets open baffle ) OllBoll Full Range 3 28th March 2011 01:00 AM
Murphy baffle radios [ open baffle ] keithpeter Full Range 10 11th September 2007 07:59 PM
what effect does baffle have on open-baffle system? kappa546 Multi-Way 6 24th January 2006 10:21 PM
Australians- what solid timbers for baffle? (open baffle loudspeaker) tktran Multi-Way 13 29th November 2004 11:09 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:10 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2