Finally, after so long I am done. I am very happy and they sound just perfect. Finish is Mappa burl with 10 layers of high gloss varnish on each. They are activly crossed and I am driving them with 15 W push pull tube 2A3 amp on the top and with 200W Mosfet on the bottom. Lambda SB12 is woofer is sealed cabinet, PHL 3450 seald mid and Esg3 on the top.
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Thank you guys. Since it is coming from such a experienced people, makes me even happier.
Crossover points are: At 225 Hz L-R 24db and 2 Kz 3 order with impedance compensation.
I am running it through the Merchant electronic active crossover to separate woofer and mid-high, and pasive crossover for the upper units. I also have the thrd tube amp for the three way active and that was great as well.
I experimented with Behringer 3 way active digital crossover, and that was overvelming. I do not have any attenuation for 6 channels, in order to do it after xover, because doing it in front, or on the crossover was really bad. I riged something just to try and it was great, but I do like my tube DA converter much more.
I hope this gives all the answers.
Crossover points are: At 225 Hz L-R 24db and 2 Kz 3 order with impedance compensation.
I am running it through the Merchant electronic active crossover to separate woofer and mid-high, and pasive crossover for the upper units. I also have the thrd tube amp for the three way active and that was great as well.
I experimented with Behringer 3 way active digital crossover, and that was overvelming. I do not have any attenuation for 6 channels, in order to do it after xover, because doing it in front, or on the crossover was really bad. I riged something just to try and it was great, but I do like my tube DA converter much more.
I hope this gives all the answers.
What about the voicing?
Could you let us know a bit more about the voicing of the loudspeakers?
Those ESG look very interesting, but I remmeber somebody making a comment on a speaker project called the Veracity saying that although they had a cavernous soundstage second to none they were also a bit dry.
This sounds to me like a description of the Accuton ceramic units used in the Avalon loudspeakers, which I find to be lean sounding....
What do you think about them?
Are these rich and warmish sounding speakers or do you think they are more on the colder or brighter side ?
Thanks
Could you let us know a bit more about the voicing of the loudspeakers?
Those ESG look very interesting, but I remmeber somebody making a comment on a speaker project called the Veracity saying that although they had a cavernous soundstage second to none they were also a bit dry.
This sounds to me like a description of the Accuton ceramic units used in the Avalon loudspeakers, which I find to be lean sounding....
What do you think about them?
Are these rich and warmish sounding speakers or do you think they are more on the colder or brighter side ?
Thanks
Re: What about the voicing?
It is just perfect - not too boomy not too soft. Very warm and extremly defined and clean. It could be little bit of a problem low sensitivity 87dB compared to 100dB of PHL and Esg3, but that is why I drive it with 200W (or my 300W tube 6550amp), and 15W push pull 2A3 for top units. That difference of 13dB is about right for that difference in amps.
OK I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough. What I meant is this: I have a 2/3 Way analog active crossover- Marchand Electronics. It is pretty good, but like anything else you put in the signal path it smears the signal little bit. That is why I was excited about digital active crossover, because it is all happening in the digital domain. I tried Behringer 24/96 crossover, and I think it is very good especially for the price. This unit is discussed in few other treads on this forum and problems associated with it. Shortly - you could plug into it analog signal from CD, preamp or DA converter or digital signal. If you atenuate signal before it enters xover, or if you do it through the gain setting on the xover (+- 15dB) it will kill dynamic range, and it will produce a lots of noise when lowered to the low level. The way to do it is after xover, but in that case you need to attenuate 4 or six channels which is not very convenient. I know that guys that are making Apex remote controled attenuator have something in the works, and that will be my next step, since I am very happy with Behringer. Only one thing, is not where i wanted it to be and that is DA conversion, but I expected it. I have very good separate tube DA converter (modified CAL Lab) and it will be very hard for $ 325.00 unit to beat that. If Behringer have digital out, I would be abble to use it. But do not take me wrong, overall it is great xover.
I think that you are not going to be happy. Esg has very narrow vertical dipersion, or any other similar ribbon speaker. From another point of view, it has just amazig sound which you cannot compare to anything else. It's a trade off.
It is hard for me to compare them to something else that I didn't have, but...
I would say that they are very musical and natural. Particullarly Esg3, not at all on the harsh side, but not soft at all. Very clean, very precise and still very emotional. Not dry at all. PHL is a great speaker. I have 10" mid and you could imagine piano, or voice with that driver. I do not feel any beaming at all, which could occure with bigger size mid drivers. It is very powerfull, and maybe I could say little bit on the warm side, but do not forget I am driving it with the tube amp. These speakers are 101 and 100dB sesitivity, and belive me they reflect anything you use to drive them with.
I already described Lambda.
thylantyr said:
What are you impressions of the woofer sonics ?
It is just perfect - not too boomy not too soft. Very warm and extremly defined and clean. It could be little bit of a problem low sensitivity 87dB compared to 100dB of PHL and Esg3, but that is why I drive it with 200W (or my 300W tube 6550amp), and 15W push pull 2A3 for top units. That difference of 13dB is about right for that difference in amps.
amo said:
OK I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough. What I meant is this: I have a 2/3 Way analog active crossover- Marchand Electronics. It is pretty good, but like anything else you put in the signal path it smears the signal little bit. That is why I was excited about digital active crossover, because it is all happening in the digital domain. I tried Behringer 24/96 crossover, and I think it is very good especially for the price. This unit is discussed in few other treads on this forum and problems associated with it. Shortly - you could plug into it analog signal from CD, preamp or DA converter or digital signal. If you atenuate signal before it enters xover, or if you do it through the gain setting on the xover (+- 15dB) it will kill dynamic range, and it will produce a lots of noise when lowered to the low level. The way to do it is after xover, but in that case you need to attenuate 4 or six channels which is not very convenient. I know that guys that are making Apex remote controled attenuator have something in the works, and that will be my next step, since I am very happy with Behringer. Only one thing, is not where i wanted it to be and that is DA conversion, but I expected it. I have very good separate tube DA converter (modified CAL Lab) and it will be very hard for $ 325.00 unit to beat that. If Behringer have digital out, I would be abble to use it. But do not take me wrong, overall it is great xover.
jonk said:
I think that you are not going to be happy. Esg has very narrow vertical dipersion, or any other similar ribbon speaker. From another point of view, it has just amazig sound which you cannot compare to anything else. It's a trade off.
b_online said:
It is hard for me to compare them to something else that I didn't have, but...
I would say that they are very musical and natural. Particullarly Esg3, not at all on the harsh side, but not soft at all. Very clean, very precise and still very emotional. Not dry at all. PHL is a great speaker. I have 10" mid and you could imagine piano, or voice with that driver. I do not feel any beaming at all, which could occure with bigger size mid drivers. It is very powerfull, and maybe I could say little bit on the warm side, but do not forget I am driving it with the tube amp. These speakers are 101 and 100dB sesitivity, and belive me they reflect anything you use to drive them with.
I already described Lambda.
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