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Old 23rd June 2012, 11:37 AM   #1
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Default TQWT Visaton AL130 & G20SC Finished!

Well Ive managed to finish these speakers, after a long absence from working on them, getting tied up with other projects (also unfinished), and the birth or my son in May.

The original design threads are here:

which taper ratio for TL?

My visaton TQW tube speaker eventually started!!!

I intend to Post my construction pictures here, since they are likely deleted long ago, from the original threads. I can re-post Boxim plots and crossover schematics , box dimensions etc, if anyone is interested.

Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.

Originally, I intended on using a triangular prism shape, as shown in one of the two sketch-up pictures.

In the end I gave up hope of getting the CNC man to cut my 105 angles, and route grooves which were essential to the prism design. So I ended up making a conventional looking box. Slightly disappointing, but nevertheless essentially the same design.

Ive probably got all the CAD panel drawing somewhere, although id have to scan them.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 12:22 PM   #2
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Very nice, mondo!

All your old links are broken though in the other threads. You're really going to have to tell us about them more. What was the final filter? How do they sound?

Are you planning any more tweaks after listening to them?
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Old 23rd June 2012, 02:07 PM   #3
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Default The beginning...

In the beginning I was inspired by the Vib130TL kit/project on the Visaton site:

Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehr, Loudspeakers and Accessories

In many ways this enclosure still appeals. The damped impedance, and almost aperiodic operation, and nice ~6dB bass roll off being the high points. I may still build this cab, just to compare with my design, which ended up being tuned using the MJK worksheets, and excel calculator; and copious help from others.

Much help and mathcad sims from Pkitt, who never seems shy to assist others.

The crossover is essentially identical to the Vib130tl:

http://www.visaton.com/bilder/weiche...vib130tl_w.gif

and mine, never uploaded. just realised.

Anyway, I began by adding a 45uH coil in the shunt circuit of the woofer, and used 5.5uF, the 2.2mH stayed the same. After a bit of a re-design, and from re-simming to re-obtain screenshots, of the ACTUAL size of cabinet.....

Click the image to open in full size.

The original design employed a 2cm roundover, but I havent found a good way to do this yet. I more of a hack n slash carpenter, than a real woodworker

Click the image to open in full size.

Comparing my simulation with the Measurements of the VIB130TL on the Visaton site; my design is quite favourable.

http://www.visaton.com/bilder/freque...ib130tl_fs.gif

Suffice it to say, Im quite happy at the result in simulation of the final implementation. It does indeed sound as flat as it looks. You can hear the swell in the lower range of the g20sc, but it isnt awful. Considering the few components it does rather well.

Besides I have alternative plans for the Fountek Neo3.5H ribbon, if I feel like a change and fancy tackling 4th order stuff on Boxsim.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

AT the moment though, Im quite happy. I literally have a 12" square piece of fairly dense PU foam 1" thick curled up at the rear of the woofer end of the cabinet.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 03:02 PM   #4
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Default SO hows the sound?

Well, not bad.

I sense a little low midrange mush, but since Ive not used any polyfibre fill at the moment, OR felt lining on the walls, I expect alot of that should disappear once I sort the lining and complete the tuning procedure.

The TL vent holes, arent entirely optimal. They are both 38mm diameter, and I feel the tuning is a little too high. Using a spade type bit, in my unskilled hands, chipping of the ply veneer top surface was, I guess, inevitable.

I am considering trying to find some port tubes with a panel cut out of 38mm, and a flanged outer edge, and cut to the panel thickness, to use a port 'inserts' and neaten the appearance. In this way it would be possible to reduce the vent area, slightly, and lower the tuning again.

Having said that, polyfill may be enough. The resonant effects are only slight, and im surprised that its not worse.

I attribute this a little to the intended 20:1 taper ratio. This in actuality is more like 442cm : 22.7cm or 19:1 and the line is 99 cm long, excluding vent shortening, if applicable.

Without a doubt, playing with stuffing will improve the lower mids, but they arent all that bad anyway, and the vent output is Gooooood
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Old 24th June 2012, 06:03 PM   #5
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A good project, mondo. That metal AL130 woofer is quite a difficult driver to align on phase isn't it? Didn't really enjoy tangling with it in Boxsim, TBH.

You've done a very nice job on the cone breakup with that RCL woofer filter. That was a new one to me.

I noticed that 4.7uF on the soft dome tweeter was a bit kinder to it on suppressing the 1.7kHz Fs resonance than 6uF and improved phase matching from 2-5kHz with a tiny dip in frequency response. You are after all, taking it lower at crossover point than it would normally like. I wonder what effect a tweeter Zobel would have too? Say 6.8R and 0.68uF? Always like them. Smooth.

FWIW, I also suspect you could have rounded and optimised a lot of those values to preferred values and saved yourself some piggybacking of components. Enjoyed reading about it very much. Thank you for sharing.
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Old 24th June 2012, 07:13 PM   #6
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spot on, the 6uF aligns phase better, 5uF isnt bad FWIW. I have 6x1uF piggybacked anyway, so a simple operation to change for listening tests.

However 6uF appears to protect the tweeter well enough, at the moment.i dont consider a zobel necessary since the G20SC has a rather good impedance plot anyway.

The fountek tweeter version, i have simmed a zobel of 20 ohm and 18 uf works well, neither tweeter has much of a resonant impedance peak though, so its an after thought, which could be added to the front end, perhaps on the reverse of the terminal plate.

If i should find it necessary lol.
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Old 24th June 2012, 08:48 PM   #7
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or was it the other way round? 5uF gives a small improvement in phase, and slightly better tweeter protection, the 6uF flatter response and better phase slightly lower down the plot. If i recall correctly. I pondered this along while ago and decided i could just snip one of the caps out, if need be. So i may end up settling for 5uF. The tweeter impedance is rather flat though, so if anything i may add a zobel to the woofer circuit, the g20sc doesnt need one, unless im sorely mistaken.
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Old 25th June 2012, 07:35 AM   #8
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After a heavy and varied listening session, I have reached the conclusion that 5uF is the final value. I could easily live with the 6uF, but id rather safeguard the tweeter a little more.

I have plenty 0.5uF here so i couldve met in the middle, at 5.5uF, but dont really see the need at this point.

Adding a zobel may be worthwhile in the long run, but im happy with the sound, and the impedance plot isnt bad really, and i like the simplicity of the filter as is.
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Old 25th June 2012, 08:23 AM   #9
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During yesterdays long listening session, I was frankly rather happy.Bass is slightly full, due to the temporary tuning, but not boomy.

I am somewhat shocked at the amplitude of the sub fs bass, a very weighty quality i hadnt expected.

Of course this is due to the room and speaker combo, rather than the speaker alone.

In 'Hitchhikers Guide' the rumble when Marvin fires the point of view gun at the Vogon is; really rather spectacular.

Im a very happy audiofool.
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Old 25th June 2012, 09:01 AM   #10
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'So long and thanks for all the fish' also lived up to the brilliant recording.

Next up, 2001: A Space Odyssey

Full design and construction to be added to my freewebs site when time allows, inc measurements, when i get the equipment.

In DIYA tradition, anyone that wishes are free to try this design for themselves.
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