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Old 23rd June 2012, 02:00 AM   #1
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Default Crossover frequency/order question

I am building a 3 way WMMT using a Dayton RS270. I am crossing over to 2 mids that are 6 1/2 and can handle low frequency pretty good. So I was thinking 325/350hz first order between W/M. But now that I think of it, the Dayton is an aluminum cone. Should I go second order? I prefer to stay first order.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 02:43 AM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Your not really asking the right question, why on earth would you need
two 6.5" midranges for a 10" bass unit, you simply don't at all in reality.
One 5" is fine at that sort of x/o point, and far better than two 6.5".
Given baffle step midrange and treble need to be 85 to 87 dB.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 02:59 AM   #3
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I'm with sreten. Seems like an unusual combination. What is it you are trying to do with 2 of the mids like that?
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Old 23rd June 2012, 03:30 AM   #4
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The point of crossover is good
And you can stay first electrical order. Just put a notch/trap to remove the break up peak.

I'm not shocked by 2x6.5" for polar response reasons if MTM but MMT . One 6.5" is enough if MT and you should not go below 6.5" (130cm²) because of the 300Hz point of crossover frequency. A 5" below 500Hz is not ease. But 2x5" could do things good
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Old 23rd June 2012, 03:46 AM   #5
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I done something WMTM (it was OB).
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 03:59 AM   #6
DougL is offline DougL  United States
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If you cross at 350 and notch at 1200 where the nasty breakup is, you are in effect creating a Chusser eliptical.
Cross at 600 with the notch at 1200, and you should be able to tune to LR4 Acustic.
I have an OB with two RS270, and I get off them at 320 Hz, LR4 electrical (Active)
Great Low distortion drivers in their range.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 04:35 AM   #7
mdocod is offline mdocod  United States
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Hi jimbones,

Drop the unnecessary extra mid-range as already suggested, and don't be afraid of higher order or most especially, mixed order crossovers. When you factor the effects of the baffle, the listening position, (most people actually always listen off axis), driver offsets and such, you will often get the best results with mixed order x-overs that creatively utilise components. Mixed order is, IMO, often the only way to achieve desirable symmetry and phase alignment in the real world.

If you would like help with the crossover, I'd be happy to help.

I will need the following:

Driver response charts and impedance charts (either 3rd party measurements that you trust, your own measurements,, or manufacture).

T/S and/or mechanical/electrical specifications of all drivers.

Box dimensions (for both the bass and mid-range units in this case!), and if you already have this planned, the driver positions, or better, allow me to select the best position on the baffle for the drivers based on simulation. I you have none of this planned, I'll provide input. I can't work on a crossover simulation until we have a box design and a good feel for box's relative position to various boundaries.

Intended listening position relative to speakers. (ear height and distance from speakers of a typical listener in the "captains chair" of the room).

Intended spacing between speakers.

Intended orientation of speakers (parallel with walls for cosmetics, or tow-in for on-axis listening at the "captains position?")

Regards,
Eric
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Old 23rd June 2012, 11:49 AM   #8
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Default Free Mids

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

Your not really asking the right question, why on earth would you need
two 6.5" midranges for a 10" bass unit, you simply don't at all in reality.
One 5" is fine at that sort of x/o point, and far better than two 6.5".
Given baffle step midrange and treble need to be 85 to 87 dB.

rgds, sreten.
I already had the Mids from a prior project so I save some $. I can use just one.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 11:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome69 View Post
The point of crossover is good
And you can stay first electrical order. Just put a notch/trap to remove the break up peak.

I'm not shocked by 2x6.5" for polar response reasons if MTM but MMT . One 6.5" is enough if MT and you should not go below 6.5" (130cm²) because of the 300Hz point of crossover frequency. A 5" below 500Hz is not ease. But 2x5" could do things good
I think I will start with only one mid. thanks.
I never designed a notch filter though. link?
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Old 23rd June 2012, 11:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post
Hi jimbones,

Drop the unnecessary extra mid-range as already suggested, and don't be afraid of higher order or most especially, mixed order crossovers. When you factor the effects of the baffle, the listening position, (most people actually always listen off axis), driver offsets and such, you will often get the best results with mixed order x-overs that creatively utilise components. Mixed order is, IMO, often the only way to achieve desirable symmetry and phase alignment in the real world.

If you would like help with the crossover, I'd be happy to help.

I will need the following:

Driver response charts and impedance charts (either 3rd party measurements that you trust, your own measurements,, or manufacture).

T/S and/or mechanical/electrical specifications of all drivers.

Box dimensions (for both the bass and mid-range units in this case!), and if you already have this planned, the driver positions, or better, allow me to select the best position on the baffle for the drivers based on simulation. I you have none of this planned, I'll provide input. I can't work on a crossover simulation until we have a box design and a good feel for box's relative position to various boundaries.

Intended listening position relative to speakers. (ear height and distance from speakers of a typical listener in the "captains chair" of the room).

Intended spacing between speakers.

Intended orientation of speakers (parallel with walls for cosmetics, or tow-in for on-axis listening at the "captains position?")

Regards,
Eric
I have or can get most of this info. However Dayton doesn't publish frequency response curves . I really appreciate the advice that you and everyone on the board is giving me. I answered your response on PE forum also with details of design. Thanks All!!!
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