all CSS heavyweight compact 3way - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th June 2012, 09:31 PM   #21
Henkjan is offline Henkjan  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Henkjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berkel en Rodenrijs
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaVeInFoRm View Post
A sports hall is a very eco'ey enviroment... wouldnt you be better of at the top of a hill... or at least in a hot air balloon.

and if that probably isnt possable, surely halfspace in a field is more accurate than a hall that bounces sound around as efficently as a basket ball
I did a gated measurement, that keeps out the echoes.

outside: not with our weather and the other noises outside (wind, birds, rain, traffic, kids, wife, dogs, Ronaldo, etc) would introduce too much noise into the measurement.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2012, 09:59 PM   #22
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Yes I know the measurements aren't smoothed, however if you take measurements that really are completely free from room measurement artefacts then smoothing isn't necessary.

Such as this, 1) the clean impulse.

Click the image to open in full size.

Followed by 2) the completely unsmoothed frequency response.

Click the image to open in full size.
Attached Images
File Type: gif impulse.GIF (5.3 KB, 1463 views)
File Type: gif unsmo.GIF (82.4 KB, 1459 views)
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz!
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2012, 10:17 PM   #23
DavidL is offline DavidL  United States
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Perhaps the measurements are being contaminated by very low frequency noise that isn't apparent to the OP but is being picked up by the sensitive mic? For instance, A/C air rumble, traffic rumble, etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2012, 10:55 PM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Noise at specific frequencies typically shows up in the measurement at the frequency that the noise is at. The OPs measurements look just like measurements that are contaminated by reflections.

For example here's the frequency response of a tweeter with a very short gate first, then longer and longer ones that capture small reflections from the room. The last one captures a particularly bad one, but you get the idea.

Click the image to open in full size.

If your response ends up looking like this.

Click the image to open in full size.

Then it often means that you've got a noisy system with broadband noise. You can easily reduce its effects by taking say 5 measurements that are then averaged out. ARTA does this automatically if you ask it to.
Attached Images
File Type: gif reflections.gif (41.8 KB, 941 views)
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz!
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2012, 10:19 PM   #25
Henkjan is offline Henkjan  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Henkjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berkel en Rodenrijs
So, here is the filter schematic:
Trio CSS - filter schema.png

Some clarifications on the main components:
  • the + and - in the driver symbol indicate how they are connected: the mid normal (so driver + on amp +), the woof and tweet reverse polarity (so driver + on amp -)
  • All capacitors preferably >160V
  • For the 8.2mH inductor I chose an I-core type, probably the best price quality ratio of the cored types; aim for the lowest series resistance your budget allows for
  • use air core inductors (foil type if budget allows) for all others, to be sure that you'll achieve the lowest distortion possible; there is no benefit in thick wires (in the mid and tweet sections) so no big dent in the budget and limited benefit from solid cores
  • RCL in tweeter net and the small caps over the series inductors of mid and woof are for the final touch, if budget is tight these can be omitted
  • the 1uF over the tweeter resistor is optional and the effect subtle, let your ears decide
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2012, 10:48 PM   #26
badman is offline badman  United States
diyAudio Member
 
badman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunny Tustin, SoCal
Regarding the efficacy of small roundovers, I always look at it this way- if one traced rays from the driver to the edge of the baffle, only those s that are perpendicular to the cabinet edges will encounter the minimum size of the roundover. Those rays that are angled relative to the baffle edge encounter a much slower transition from 2pi to 4pi and thus the small roundover is effective lower in frequency than the nominal roundover size would seem to be capable.
__________________
I write for www.enjoythemusic.com in the DIY section. You may find yourself getting a preview of a project in-progress. Be warned!
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2012, 11:08 AM   #27
Henkjan is offline Henkjan  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Henkjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berkel en Rodenrijs
while waiting for the "final" filter components to arrive, been playing a bit with the damping and placement of the speakers. first I added more twaron, now there is 200gr elves hair in the woofer compartment. subtle difference, but enough to justify the effort.

placing them proved an issue in my listening room, because I noticed a large difference in bass if I moved my listening position by a foot or so (it was easier to move myself than to move these heavy boxes with the filter free-wired on a piece of wood), much more than I had with other designs. having a deep bass does not make everything easier to be continued.

but apart from that, I am happier every day with what these deliver. the speakers disappear completely, imaging is among the best I've heard (at least the same as a good fullranger, which is my reference; this really surprised me, never expected that a multi-way could be a match for a full range in this aspect), details are beautiful, instruments and voices are as if the musicians are in the room playing live. orchestral music is impressive, especially live recordings.

Now all I need to do is to convince my wife that these deserve a place in our livingroom
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2012, 10:55 PM   #28
Mark Kravchenko --- www.kravchenko-audio.com
diyAudio Member
 
mwmkravchenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Perth Canada
Soldier on Henkjan. The sharks are out and your wearing tuna flavored shorts!

Well thought out, and your measurements will improve with practice.
__________________
Mark
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2012, 05:03 PM   #29
Henkjan is offline Henkjan  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Henkjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berkel en Rodenrijs
did you mean solder on?

just received all the final filter components, next is to make some nice prints (a zelfbouwaudio.nl member is making the prints for me) to mount them, and then I'll also finnish the veneer

@Mark: a bit odd to notice that much of the discussion was on details of the measurements, and less on the loudspeaker design or the filtering
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2012, 05:25 PM   #30
Mark Kravchenko --- www.kravchenko-audio.com
diyAudio Member
 
mwmkravchenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Perth Canada
Tis the perils of posting.

I'm sure they sound awesome.
__________________
Mark
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heavyweight Sony laser/loader mschwilson Digital Source 5 18th August 2013 06:24 PM
Desktop XL - a compact TL for the CSS EL70 Henkjan Full Range 35 10th July 2010 04:50 PM
CSS FR125S, Alpair 7 & CSS EL70? Monte Verdi Markaudio 6 29th June 2010 08:51 PM
2.5 or 3way deki Multi-Way 13 18th July 2007 02:33 PM
Height issues for Dayton CSS AC 3way dunderchief Multi-Way 7 11th February 2005 07:30 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:12 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2