Well as many, I went to a store near my place and listened to commercial units like Paradigm, PSB, JMLab and Bowers and Wilkins. Now as much as these are nice, I don't feel like I will enjoy the difference between these and some homemade speakers. And since as a student the budget is rather tight, spending $1000CDN on a pair of speakers is a bit too much. My budget would be around 500$CND or 10$US...(Just kidding, more like 350$US). I am looking for something that will be around 90db 2.83V/1m, 100W RMS or so, good tonal balance and as deep as possible bass as possible since I don't plan using a sub with these.
I searched the archive throughly and did not find any project that would satisfy my needs. I did a quick search on the internet but to no avail.
Generally, I find that my favorite speakers are three way speakers. But I'm open to go two way if it allows me to build something more easily (or cheaply).
So here's the drivers I came up with that might do a good job, but still, since I have no experience with crossover design, they might not be that appropriate. That is why I'm writing here, to get other opinions on the matter.
Two 8 inch woofers in a 3 cubic feet ported box, tuned around 31hz. The drivers are the Dayton 8 inch:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...4&St3=-36716043&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7770&DID=7
With an F3 of 32Hz no sub will really be needed. And the 85L box is small enough to fit my living room.
One 2 inch Dayton Dome Mid:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...4&St3=-36716043&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7434&DID=7
One Dayton Planar Tweeter:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...&St3=-36716043&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=15969&DID=7
Since they are all around 90db at 2.83V/1m I believe these would match pretty good and be rather efficient, thus easily driven by my 40W/ch gainclone.
My first tought on the crossover were to cross the woofer at 650, and the tweeter at 4000. But I have no idea how to do so. Once again, I turn to you guys with simulation programs to help me with that.
Well that's it for now, I can't wait to have you opinion and to order those drivers!
Thanks,
Sébastien
I searched the archive throughly and did not find any project that would satisfy my needs. I did a quick search on the internet but to no avail.
Generally, I find that my favorite speakers are three way speakers. But I'm open to go two way if it allows me to build something more easily (or cheaply).
So here's the drivers I came up with that might do a good job, but still, since I have no experience with crossover design, they might not be that appropriate. That is why I'm writing here, to get other opinions on the matter.
Two 8 inch woofers in a 3 cubic feet ported box, tuned around 31hz. The drivers are the Dayton 8 inch:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...4&St3=-36716043&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7770&DID=7
With an F3 of 32Hz no sub will really be needed. And the 85L box is small enough to fit my living room.
One 2 inch Dayton Dome Mid:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...4&St3=-36716043&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7434&DID=7
One Dayton Planar Tweeter:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...&St3=-36716043&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=15969&DID=7
Since they are all around 90db at 2.83V/1m I believe these would match pretty good and be rather efficient, thus easily driven by my 40W/ch gainclone.
My first tought on the crossover were to cross the woofer at 650, and the tweeter at 4000. But I have no idea how to do so. Once again, I turn to you guys with simulation programs to help me with that.
Well that's it for now, I can't wait to have you opinion and to order those drivers!
Thanks,
Sébastien
Hi Sébastien!
That selection of drivers probably isn't going to work too well. The planar tweeter there can be used - thats excellent for about 3KHz and up. But that 2" dome midrange there is truely an upper midrange device and even treble. I wouldn't cross that unit any lower than 1KHz or distortion will become excessive and power handling is decreased, limiting your total SPL output.
The 8" Dayton woofer there has really been designed for bass applications, which you can see its been tuned pretty low with a free air resonance of 29Hz. It's frequency response graph shows that throughout the midrange it has a very non-linear curve - it isn't flat. And especially at 1KHz its not going to give you a flat frequency response curve. That's really because its been tuned low so it needs extra moving mass to lower the resonance freqeuncy, but it's also limiting its MF/HF behaviour. I'd suggest picking a 6.5" woofer or 8" unit from Vifa or Scanspeak, they have quite a few models which would suit your application well. I'd also check out the Alpha series from Eminence which work great too. Parts Express can supply any of these woofers.
So what I'd do in your situation is, throw out the 2inch "midrange" unit altogethor. It's pretty worthless, really, as there are woofers available which are linear right up to 3-4KHz where you would crossover to the PT2 Planar tweeter you are looking at. You could employ an MTM format system, using two midranges (which cover the same range) and a tweeter. Or if you want a smaller system, a 2-way with midrange and tweeter could be done. A 3-way system could always be employed of course, that does mean spending extra money though and you've already mentioned that your on a budget.
Adrian
That selection of drivers probably isn't going to work too well. The planar tweeter there can be used - thats excellent for about 3KHz and up. But that 2" dome midrange there is truely an upper midrange device and even treble. I wouldn't cross that unit any lower than 1KHz or distortion will become excessive and power handling is decreased, limiting your total SPL output.
The 8" Dayton woofer there has really been designed for bass applications, which you can see its been tuned pretty low with a free air resonance of 29Hz. It's frequency response graph shows that throughout the midrange it has a very non-linear curve - it isn't flat. And especially at 1KHz its not going to give you a flat frequency response curve. That's really because its been tuned low so it needs extra moving mass to lower the resonance freqeuncy, but it's also limiting its MF/HF behaviour. I'd suggest picking a 6.5" woofer or 8" unit from Vifa or Scanspeak, they have quite a few models which would suit your application well. I'd also check out the Alpha series from Eminence which work great too. Parts Express can supply any of these woofers.
So what I'd do in your situation is, throw out the 2inch "midrange" unit altogethor. It's pretty worthless, really, as there are woofers available which are linear right up to 3-4KHz where you would crossover to the PT2 Planar tweeter you are looking at. You could employ an MTM format system, using two midranges (which cover the same range) and a tweeter. Or if you want a smaller system, a 2-way with midrange and tweeter could be done. A 3-way system could always be employed of course, that does mean spending extra money though and you've already mentioned that your on a budget.
Adrian
you should take a look at the adire kit 281.
www.adireaudio.com
it fits perfectly what you described above!
www.adireaudio.com
it fits perfectly what you described above!
Looking at Solen's sales page I find some very good deals on right now (I like their sales page, I"m a student too! 
)
Alright, I was particularly interested in the Seas L21RN4X/P08. In a 43.7L vented box tuned to 31.14Hz. You'll get an F3 of about 35Hz. Not too shabby. For the crossover, tie it into a point of say, 200 Hz. perhaps an LR 2nd order. ( that's 143.70 for the drivers, and about 60 for the x-over.) For increased clarity we may use a mid-range unit. Perhaps, the MP12VC08 in a 3.7L sealed enclosure we can high-pass at 200Hz. with a 6db/oct. and cut-off at 5khz. (So, that's 70 for mids and about 40 for the x-over.) Now, onto the tweeters... Well, for a tweeter that's going to x-over above 5khz....you don't have to spend a lot of money on that....this is just an idea of a system you may want to use, expand, contract on whatever you want.
)Alright, I was particularly interested in the Seas L21RN4X/P08. In a 43.7L vented box tuned to 31.14Hz. You'll get an F3 of about 35Hz. Not too shabby. For the crossover, tie it into a point of say, 200 Hz. perhaps an LR 2nd order. ( that's 143.70 for the drivers, and about 60 for the x-over.) For increased clarity we may use a mid-range unit. Perhaps, the MP12VC08 in a 3.7L sealed enclosure we can high-pass at 200Hz. with a 6db/oct. and cut-off at 5khz. (So, that's 70 for mids and about 40 for the x-over.) Now, onto the tweeters... Well, for a tweeter that's going to x-over above 5khz....you don't have to spend a lot of money on that....this is just an idea of a system you may want to use, expand, contract on whatever you want.
My Suggestion
1. Units from Scanspeak or Seas are easy to choose
2. Crossover for a 3-Way speaker is much complex than one for a 2-Way speaker, So 2-way speaker is easy to made and also save your budget
3. buy some good meterial like Solen capacitors even MIT capacitors on the very important position (The high frequency path for Tweeters)
1. Units from Scanspeak or Seas are easy to choose
2. Crossover for a 3-Way speaker is much complex than one for a 2-Way speaker, So 2-way speaker is easy to made and also save your budget
3. buy some good meterial like Solen capacitors even MIT capacitors on the very important position (The high frequency path for Tweeters)
For simplicity I would recommend dual 6.5" ctd paper cone 2 way in an MTM layout.
You could use a really nice tweeter that will handle low xover - this solves alot of the issues with MTMs.
A 6.5" ported will give you nice bass reponse & good usable range up to about 3k, by using two of them you can get can increase efficiency & move more air.
Coated paper is nice & easy to work with xover wise & too me sounds natural.
I would reommend the Vifa m17sg
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=297-307&DID=7
and maybe the Vifa dx25 ?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=264-578&DID=7
You could use a really nice tweeter that will handle low xover - this solves alot of the issues with MTMs.
A 6.5" ported will give you nice bass reponse & good usable range up to about 3k, by using two of them you can get can increase efficiency & move more air.
Coated paper is nice & easy to work with xover wise & too me sounds natural.
I would reommend the Vifa m17sg
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=297-307&DID=7
and maybe the Vifa dx25 ?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=264-578&DID=7
2 ways are a lot simpler than 3 ways. for 3 ways to et simpel the 2 freq. should be about a decade apart (300, 3000Hz for example). reasons for this involve a long discussionin polar maths.
at $350 for 2 pairs incl cabinets u have limited options. dayton and partexpress and audire offer good deals here.
The tradition solution would a MTM using 2 x 6.5 and a 1" but if you want to be a bit off the wall you could try 2 x 8" in push push TL instead of the above said 2x6.5
push push compensates for difraction loss and physical forces.
at $350 for 2 pairs incl cabinets u have limited options. dayton and partexpress and audire offer good deals here.
The tradition solution would a MTM using 2 x 6.5 and a 1" but if you want to be a bit off the wall you could try 2 x 8" in push push TL instead of the above said 2x6.5
push push compensates for difraction loss and physical forces.
seems you have more options if you stick to 6" woofers but this 8" from peerless seems to be promsing....
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...4&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=16241&DID=7
i knowit has a foam surround and all that but it should work to about 1500Hz.
if you are willing to sacrifice some Bass SPLs and use 6" then there are many options
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...4&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=16247&DID=7
if you want a sheiled woofer consider ....
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...14&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7817&DID=7
for a tweeter...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...14&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=6375&DID=7
basically at $150 your 4 woofers shodl cost you about $110 and the 2 tweeters $40.
also look at
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...14&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7817&DID=7
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...4&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=16241&DID=7
i knowit has a foam surround and all that but it should work to about 1500Hz.
if you are willing to sacrifice some Bass SPLs and use 6" then there are many options
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...4&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=16247&DID=7
if you want a sheiled woofer consider ....
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...14&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7817&DID=7
for a tweeter...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...14&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=6375&DID=7
basically at $150 your 4 woofers shodl cost you about $110 and the 2 tweeters $40.
also look at
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...14&St3=81807380&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7817&DID=7
If I want something cheap I go to ebay. Look for a nice and cheap pair of woofers. Then look for x-over plans to that include the tweeter. Note the tweeter(s) and try to find them on ebay also, one of them at least. I start with woofers and then try to find matching tweeters, but you can build start vice versa. It's easier and cheaper to build 2-way and sub(s) then 3 way IMO. I got 15" subs and amps for them for $270 total, but they're 2 of them and big amps.
I also built nice 2.5-way speakers for $200US worth of drivers that I bought on ebay from Canada (BC). The finished speakers almost look like this http://www.zetagcorp.com/hig4.htm Ended up taking me 16 months and about $400-$600 due to inexperience. But they can be made for $350US definately.
I also built nice 2.5-way speakers for $200US worth of drivers that I bought on ebay from Canada (BC). The finished speakers almost look like this http://www.zetagcorp.com/hig4.htm Ended up taking me 16 months and about $400-$600 due to inexperience. But they can be made for $350US definately.
I think it may be real difficult to match a commercial kit in quality when designing your own speaker, unless you're really good and have the equipment. I recommend the Kit281 to you now, because the sensitivity should be good enough, and the bass quality/depth is really something (two pretty solid 8" woofers... they are mainly a subwoofer manufacturer, after all). My only concern would be that the gainclones might have trouble with them.
Hold on there people - this guy has no experience with xover design, & the drivers you recommend require notch filters to deal with cone breakup
Navin> the Peerless 8 " has huge breakup at 3k , plus a really high Qts requires a very large enclosure. Would seem a poor choice.
The 7" is much better but still has bit of a wiggle at 1.5k due to surround termiantion - this might not be a problem as it is quite small.
The Audax polymer driver I noticed is listed as a midrange but also has severe cone breakup.
The Vifa tweeter although nice has a highish fs at 1k.
Bose0> The Seas aluminium cone - again has severe breakups & requires notch filters. "F3 of 35hz is not to shabby" Joking thats bloody excellent!
Pansk> The Scanspeaks are easy to choose? Huh?
They are excellent drivers but some of the most expensive around & if you read the web not easy to xover with.
Hence my original recommendation of drivers with smooth responses and tweeter with low fs, it just makes xover so much easier.
If he wants to avoid the design stage & go straight to building then a kit might be the other option.
Sorry cant except people reommednding drivers just because they are cheap or onsale, you should look at spec first then price.
Navin> the Peerless 8 " has huge breakup at 3k , plus a really high Qts requires a very large enclosure. Would seem a poor choice.
The 7" is much better but still has bit of a wiggle at 1.5k due to surround termiantion - this might not be a problem as it is quite small.
The Audax polymer driver I noticed is listed as a midrange but also has severe cone breakup.
The Vifa tweeter although nice has a highish fs at 1k.
Bose0> The Seas aluminium cone - again has severe breakups & requires notch filters. "F3 of 35hz is not to shabby" Joking thats bloody excellent!
Pansk> The Scanspeaks are easy to choose? Huh?
They are excellent drivers but some of the most expensive around & if you read the web not easy to xover with.
Hence my original recommendation of drivers with smooth responses and tweeter with low fs, it just makes xover so much easier.
If he wants to avoid the design stage & go straight to building then a kit might be the other option.
Sorry cant except people reommednding drivers just because they are cheap or onsale, you should look at spec first then price.
AP, maybe i read it wrong but i tinkhe wanted a sysmte that was sensitive that lead me to believe that he wouldneed atleast 2 woofers per box so as not to loose those precious 3-4db due to BSC (I know BSC is 6db but that is too much loss besides it causes other problems that can be disccsed seperately).
also since he did not want a shielded woofer it made sense to look for a woofer that is not. no need to spend on an extra magnet and/or casing (for the shield) when it is not required.
would you then suggest the TC series of Vifa. I dont knwo the commercial prices of these. Or even Logic if they are available.
The 18cm TC Vifa is very smooth and can even be used with a serial XO.
maybe we can fit 4 18cm vifa TC series woofer and 2 tweeters in under $200 saving $150 for cabient and XO.
also since he did not want a shielded woofer it made sense to look for a woofer that is not. no need to spend on an extra magnet and/or casing (for the shield) when it is not required.
would you then suggest the TC series of Vifa. I dont knwo the commercial prices of these. Or even Logic if they are available.
The 18cm TC Vifa is very smooth and can even be used with a serial XO.
maybe we can fit 4 18cm vifa TC series woofer and 2 tweeters in under $200 saving $150 for cabient and XO.
Kilentra said:
Kilentra, Thanks for clearing thta up for me!
It was somewhere stuck in my head that the kit 281 had 92dB, but I couldn remember where I got that.
Since I love my adire car sub (brahma), and because I have met Dan Wiggins twice, I was convinced that Adire is the way to go for me!
Now that you are talking about 200+ watts, I'm beginning to hesitate. Also since Adire is not available where I live.
My amp will (probably - undecided at this moment) be a Marantz 7200, which delivers 95 rms in AB, and 25W in class A.
Is that enough juice or not?
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