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Old 12th October 2003, 10:29 PM   #1
tool49 is offline tool49  Canada
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Default Looking to build cheap, efficient, good sounding floorstanding speakers

Well as many, I went to a store near my place and listened to commercial units like Paradigm, PSB, JMLab and Bowers and Wilkins. Now as much as these are nice, I don't feel like I will enjoy the difference between these and some homemade speakers. And since as a student the budget is rather tight, spending $1000CDN on a pair of speakers is a bit too much. My budget would be around 500$CND or 10$US...(Just kidding, more like 350$US). I am looking for something that will be around 90db 2.83V/1m, 100W RMS or so, good tonal balance and as deep as possible bass as possible since I don't plan using a sub with these.

I searched the archive throughly and did not find any project that would satisfy my needs. I did a quick search on the internet but to no avail.

Generally, I find that my favorite speakers are three way speakers. But I'm open to go two way if it allows me to build something more easily (or cheaply).

So here's the drivers I came up with that might do a good job, but still, since I have no experience with crossover design, they might not be that appropriate. That is why I'm writing here, to get other opinions on the matter.

Two 8 inch woofers in a 3 cubic feet ported box, tuned around 31hz. The drivers are the Dayton 8 inch:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd..._ID=7770&DID=7

With an F3 of 32Hz no sub will really be needed. And the 85L box is small enough to fit my living room.

One 2 inch Dayton Dome Mid:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd..._ID=7434&DID=7

One Dayton Planar Tweeter:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=15969&DID=7

Since they are all around 90db at 2.83V/1m I believe these would match pretty good and be rather efficient, thus easily driven by my 40W/ch gainclone.

My first tought on the crossover were to cross the woofer at 650, and the tweeter at 4000. But I have no idea how to do so. Once again, I turn to you guys with simulation programs to help me with that.

Well that's it for now, I can't wait to have you opinion and to order those drivers!

Thanks,
Sébastien
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Old 13th October 2003, 07:53 AM   #2
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Hi Sébastien!

That selection of drivers probably isn't going to work too well. The planar tweeter there can be used - thats excellent for about 3KHz and up. But that 2" dome midrange there is truely an upper midrange device and even treble. I wouldn't cross that unit any lower than 1KHz or distortion will become excessive and power handling is decreased, limiting your total SPL output.

The 8" Dayton woofer there has really been designed for bass applications, which you can see its been tuned pretty low with a free air resonance of 29Hz. It's frequency response graph shows that throughout the midrange it has a very non-linear curve - it isn't flat. And especially at 1KHz its not going to give you a flat frequency response curve. That's really because its been tuned low so it needs extra moving mass to lower the resonance freqeuncy, but it's also limiting its MF/HF behaviour. I'd suggest picking a 6.5" woofer or 8" unit from Vifa or Scanspeak, they have quite a few models which would suit your application well. I'd also check out the Alpha series from Eminence which work great too. Parts Express can supply any of these woofers.

So what I'd do in your situation is, throw out the 2inch "midrange" unit altogethor. It's pretty worthless, really, as there are woofers available which are linear right up to 3-4KHz where you would crossover to the PT2 Planar tweeter you are looking at. You could employ an MTM format system, using two midranges (which cover the same range) and a tweeter. Or if you want a smaller system, a 2-way with midrange and tweeter could be done. A 3-way system could always be employed of course, that does mean spending extra money though and you've already mentioned that your on a budget.

Adrian
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Old 13th October 2003, 10:34 AM   #3
ALFIrE is offline ALFIrE  Belgium
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you should take a look at the adire kit 281.

www.adireaudio.com

it fits perfectly what you described above!
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Old 13th October 2003, 04:37 PM   #4
Bose(o) is offline Bose(o)  Canada
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Looking at Solen's sales page I find some very good deals on right now (I like their sales page, I"m a student too! )

Alright, I was particularly interested in the Seas L21RN4X/P08. In a 43.7L vented box tuned to 31.14Hz. You'll get an F3 of about 35Hz. Not too shabby. For the crossover, tie it into a point of say, 200 Hz. perhaps an LR 2nd order. ( that's 143.70 for the drivers, and about 60 for the x-over.) For increased clarity we may use a mid-range unit. Perhaps, the MP12VC08 in a 3.7L sealed enclosure we can high-pass at 200Hz. with a 6db/oct. and cut-off at 5khz. (So, that's 70 for mids and about 40 for the x-over.) Now, onto the tweeters... Well, for a tweeter that's going to x-over above 5khz....you don't have to spend a lot of money on that....this is just an idea of a system you may want to use, expand, contract on whatever you want.
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Old 14th October 2003, 12:16 AM   #5
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The Kit281s are cheap and good sounding but not so efficient... but that doesn't stop me from loving them. Please consider those, as well as Adire's HE12.1 kit which is 96db efficient.
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Old 14th October 2003, 03:35 AM   #6
panzk is offline panzk  China
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Default My Suggestion

1. Units from Scanspeak or Seas are easy to choose

2. Crossover for a 3-Way speaker is much complex than one for a 2-Way speaker, So 2-way speaker is easy to made and also save your budget

3. buy some good meterial like Solen capacitors even MIT capacitors on the very important position (The high frequency path for Tweeters)
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Old 14th October 2003, 06:21 AM   #7
ALFIrE is offline ALFIrE  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kilentra
The Kit281s are cheap and good sounding but not so efficient... but that doesn't stop me from loving them. Please consider those, as well as Adire's HE12.1 kit which is 96db efficient.

I thought the kit 281 had a sensitivity of 92Db, and the kit 81 88dB ?

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Old 14th October 2003, 06:58 AM   #8
Ap is offline Ap
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For simplicity I would recommend dual 6.5" ctd paper cone 2 way in an MTM layout.
You could use a really nice tweeter that will handle low xover - this solves alot of the issues with MTMs.
A 6.5" ported will give you nice bass reponse & good usable range up to about 3k, by using two of them you can get can increase efficiency & move more air.
Coated paper is nice & easy to work with xover wise & too me sounds natural.
I would reommend the Vifa m17sg
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=297-307&DID=7
and maybe the Vifa dx25 ?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=264-578&DID=7
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Old 14th October 2003, 11:02 AM   #9
navin is offline navin  India
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2 ways are a lot simpler than 3 ways. for 3 ways to et simpel the 2 freq. should be about a decade apart (300, 3000Hz for example). reasons for this involve a long discussionin polar maths.

at $350 for 2 pairs incl cabinets u have limited options. dayton and partexpress and audire offer good deals here.

The tradition solution would a MTM using 2 x 6.5 and a 1" but if you want to be a bit off the wall you could try 2 x 8" in push push TL instead of the above said 2x6.5

push push compensates for difraction loss and physical forces.
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Old 14th October 2003, 11:28 AM   #10
navin is offline navin  India
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seems you have more options if you stick to 6" woofers but this 8" from peerless seems to be promsing....


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=16241&DID=7

i knowit has a foam surround and all that but it should work to about 1500Hz.

if you are willing to sacrifice some Bass SPLs and use 6" then there are many options

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=16247&DID=7

if you want a sheiled woofer consider ....

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd..._ID=7817&DID=7

for a tweeter...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd..._ID=6375&DID=7

basically at $150 your 4 woofers shodl cost you about $110 and the 2 tweeters $40.

also look at

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd..._ID=7817&DID=7
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